Gann Fan Question...??

[Alfred]

Looking at the Ninja Gann Fan...In the screenshot below...on the right side of the rectangle...
shouldn't the yellow 3x1 line be equidistant between the 4x1 line and the 2x1 line ??
And on the bottom of the rectangle the 1x3 line should be equidistant from the 1x4 line and the 1x2 line....?? I believe Gann also divided a square by 1/3rd of the squares side....this is usually shown (I believe) as a dotted line to distinguish it from the regular 1x8 through 8x1 lines..

The 2nd screen shot shows a typical Gann square divided into 8 equal parts in price and time...

Thanks......

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

I am researching this on my end and will follow up with more information. Thanks in advance for your patience.

[eDanny]

Hi Alfred, the lines may not look right but are mathematically. In the attached picture I illustrate how the fan lines will intersect the black line at 13 ticks on every 13th bar. The vertical lines are somewhat color coded to match the appropriate gann line. The 3x1 gann line should intersect the 13 tick line at 13 x 3 = 39 bars, and does. The upper horizontal line also intersects the 1x3 line at the correct tick location.

[Alfred]

Ninja Gann Fan Analysis...

Dan...two screen shots below...in the first draw a red rectangle...then with the ruler draw the diagonal....
then from the ruler divide 4 by 290...= 0.013793..plug this in to points per bar in fan properties....this will give you the points per bar of a Gann fan to fit your square...with the 1x1 line falling on the squares diagonal...
...then set up Fibonacci retracements on the square right side (you want 8 Gann divisions vertically)...

Then in screen shot 2 move your fan into the square...you will see the yellow 3x1 line misses the 62.5 % target by quite a bit...

The magenta arrow line points to the miss....
It looks to me like the Ninja 3x1 yellow line is off....

You want equidistant bar spacing unchecked for the above...
........

[eDanny]

Gann lines are not retraced from the 45 degree 1x1 line. They are built from the horizontal and vertical base lines. The 3x1 line would then be at 33.33% in this chart picture or in your chart you would change that fib line to 66.66% retrace.

Dan

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

After some research, I've discovered that this is expected.

The overall reason this occurs is because the x-axis and the y-axis on the chart are not scaled the same. eDanny has also provided so excellent examples describing this expected behavior.

[Alfred]

Could Patrick referee this one...??

In the screen shots below...the 1x3 dark blue line at the bottom of the square is also off just like the 3x1 yellow line.

You could divide the base line into 8 parts and see the same thing as shown vertically.

You want 8 regular intervals horizontal and vertical per W D Gann....the same scale horizontally and vertically is not required....you want 8 divisions of price and 8 divisions of time whatever the size of your square or rectangle.....

I can't believe you guys...!! ...."to be expected"....this is laughable...!!

.............

[Alfred]

To Be Expected....

Here is another example with a much different proportion of the square...showing the Ninja yellow 3x1 and 1x3 lines off by the same % amount....this is what is "to be expected"...!!

..........

[eDanny]

Hey Alfred, again you are mis-measuring the gann levels with retracement. Start your zero at the top and your 100% at the1x1. The 8x1 should be 12.5%, the 4x1 would be 25%, the 3x1 will be 66.66% and 2x1 at 50%. That is correct. Measuring with retracement, you would use from the 1x1, 50%, 33.33%, 75% and 87.5%. The top horizontal is the zero for downward fans and the bottom horizontal is the zero for upward fans.

[Alfred]

Angle of The Dangle...Overlooked...??

Hey Alfred, again you are mis-measuring the gann levels with retracement. Start your zero at the top and your 100% at the1x1. The 8x1 should be 12.5%, the 4x1 would be 25%, the 3x1 will be 66.66% and 2x1 at 50%. That is correct. Measuring with retracement, you would use from the 1x1, 50%, 33.33%, 75% and 87.5%. The top horizontal is the zero for downward fans and the bottom horizontal is the zero for upward fans.

Dan....did you take into account the angle of the dangle in your calc's....??..that could be where things went haywire.. The 3x1 line would intersect at 62.5 % (3 x 12.5%) for downward fans in order to maintain the Gann 8 regular divisions of price & time........
....that is to be expected....

The 33.33% & 66.66% are not needed necessarily in a Gann Fan,and are a separate matter from the required accurate 3x1 & 1x3 lines in a Gann Fan.

...........

[eDanny]

If you check my chart pictures you will see the accuracy of the calculations. A 1x1 ratio = 13 bars and 13 ticks = 45 degrees. A 2x1 ratio = 26 bars for 13 ticks. A 3x1 ratio = 39 bars per 13 ticks. A 4x1 ratio = 52 bars at 13 ticks. You can't prove it wrong with fibs because it is simple math and can only be correct one way, using ticks and bars. The 33.3% is because a gann 1x3 = 1/3 = 33.33%. When you draw the fibs inverted like you did the 33.33% line is now 66.66% as I pointed out and is why your 3x1 line misses the fib.

[Alfred]

Maybe the problem is that Ninja now labels an actual 1/3 (33.33%) line as a 3x1 or 1x3 line.
They are not the same thing. Perhaps label a 1/3 line .or a 2/3 line in that manner to avoid confusion. Your calcs are correct for a 1/3 or 33.33% lines. When these are sometimes shown in a Gann Square chart they are often shown dotted to distinguish from the 1/8s division point lines. Having accurate lines that intersect the 1/8s points in price and time is critical. That is what a Gann Grid or a Gann fan is primarily all about.

A 3x1 line intersects at 62.5%...while 89 / 144 = 61.8. So a 3x1 line is very close to an important natural Fibonacci ratio. While the 1/3 line at 66.66% is not nearly as close to any Fibonacci ratio. That is why an accurate 3x1 or 1x3 line is so valuable in Gann squares and in Gann Fans.

Now 55 / 144 = 38.19 % while a 3x1 line can intersect at 37.5%....again very close to a Fibonacci Ratio. Remember since price and time in a Gann Grid are divided up into 8 units....a Fibonacci number....the harmonics of a Gann Fan and Gann Grid are basically quite close to Fibonacci harmonics.

If Ninja wants to keep the 33.33% 66.66% (1/3 or 2/3) lines, I suggest they be dotted to distinguish from the 8x1 to 1x8 lines. Personally for me the 1/3 and 2/3 lines are clutter....as they are not that close to any very important Fibonacci ratios.

Here again is a screen shot of a Gann Grid with accurate 8x1 to 1x8 lines....the 1/3 2/3 lines are not shown and not really necessary....

...............

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Below are the calculated angles for the Top-Right Gann Fan (in degrees) for a properly scaled chart (where 1 rise = 1 run) which you can find all over the internet and which we can also use to clarify the relationship between the angles.

1 x 8 - 82.5 degrees
1 x 4 - 75 degrees
1 x 3 - 71.25 degrees
1 x 2 - 63.75 degrees
1 x 1 - 45 degrees
2 x 1 - 26.25 degrees
3 x 1 - 18.75 degrees
4 x 1 - 15 degrees
8 x 1 - 7.5 degrees

You can see the difference between the 2x1 to 3x1 angles is 7.5 degrees and the 3x1 to 4x1 angles is 3.75 degrees.

Therefore, we would not expect the 3x1 line to be equidistant between the 2x1 and 4x1 lines.

This is the same concept used in Gann Fan implementations in many other platforms.

In case you still disagree, please let me know and I will submit a feature request on your behalf.

[Alfred]

New Fan Tool for Ninja

Patrick....in the screen shot below the 8x1 through 2x1 lines must intersect at 12.5% vertical and horizontal points on your selected square per W D Gann. (8 divisions per side)
The 33.33 % 1/3 line is correctly shown dotted just above the actual 3x1 line. (in case you feel a 33.33% line is actually needed)

I have also seen on the web a number of so called Gann fans that call the 33.33% line a 3x1 line. These so called "Gann" fans are simply incorrect.

What I would suggest for Ninja is to develop a fan tool that draws the 1x1 diagonal Gann line of a rectangle of your choice similarly as one plots a typical draw tool line from beginning to end and then all of the fan lines would then show automatically in scale to your rectangle....the rectangle would be adjustable and moveable....no fussing with a calculator etc etc..... The tool you have now is just impossibly awkward to use. With a tool like this suggestion one could easily explore many fan graphic placement options .......

Also allow for fan lines to be truncated at your initial box, or at 2 or 3 diagonals of boxes ...user select-able per each initial box.....

[eDanny]

You would be looking for something like the FibFan enabled in IT_SpeedLines, which has a start and end. Gann fans only require one anchor because the 1x1 can only be 45 degrees and all the other Gann angles must be what they are based on x = bars and y = ticks. The Gann Fan is correct but you are looking for something that is not a Gann Fan.