Custom trading hours EOD issue

[RanchoDinero]

The constraints on the EOD won't allow a valid custom session template. Please see attached sample for combined ETH and RTH sessions in one template. If EOD is checked for all it can't be saved, if EOD is unchecked for all, the wrong sessions are automatically selected for EOD.

[NinjaTrader_CodyB]

Hello,
Thank you for your post.
This occurs because the EOD is being selected when the days selected for the Trading Hours is actually two days for each session. EOD also sets if the session if the last session for the trading day. You would not want to select this as the sessions end at 3:15PM Central Time and then start up again at 3:30PM Central Time.

Can you clarify what you mean when the wrong sessions are automatically selected for EOD? Are you using and End Of Day connection?

[RanchoDinero]

Cody -

All futures and currency sessions span some 24 hour period, so the EOD constraints prohibit splitting these sessions up into more than one per day. Many traders split futures into US and EU session for example, some split the day into several sessions for some instruments. The NT8 constraints wouldn't allow that to happen and so i'm thinking the constraints are really too restrictive and (maybe?) unnecessary. The user should be in control total of the bar breaks for themselves if they need that level of control over their session definitions.

Also this was a perfectly valid thing in NT7.... so...

[NinjaTrader_CodyB]

Hello,
You can split up the sessions for the Trading Hours. The EOD would only be selected if that is the last session of the day. As these are not the last session you will need to leave EOD unchecked.
Can you clarify what you mean by if EOD is unchecked for all, the wrong sessions are automatically selected for EOD?
Is this displaying the chart improperly? If so please attach a screenshot so I may investigate further

[RanchoDinero]

Cody -

OK, let's take a simple case of splitting the index futures globex session into the overnight session and the regular equities session. Because the overnight session spans 2 days it can't be saved. Also the end of the trading day isn't the same as the end of any 24h period. In the equities futures the settlement price is determined at 3:15 central. All trades after that settle the following day.

So I'm thinking these new constraints don't make much sense... there's nothing invalid about this template, so seems like it should allow the user to save it and use it as long as the sessions that are defined don't overlap regardless of the number of sessions per day.

So... the first session screenshot is the one I want to be able to define, the next is the error that occurs when I do.

[NinjaTrader_CodyB]

Hello,
You will not be able EOD for the session that ends at Monday 3:15PM CT. However the next session starts at 3:30PM Monday which indicates that this is not the last session of the Day does not end at 3:15PM CT. This will apply to Wednesday as well.

In regards to with EOD unchecked I am able to reproduce what is occurring. I am able to make the session work by removing the holiday hours. I am reporting this to our development team as this should work with the holiday hours.
Thank you for reporting this and providing the information.

[RanchoDinero]

Gotcha.

But the monday 3:15 session end is the settlement date for all trades which happened sunday, monday morning and monday afternoon. Why can't this be marked EOD?

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

The overnight session spanning 2 calendar dates is not a problem and not accounted for in the logic. The error you're getting about '24 hour period' is because you have configured Thrusday's session to end at 03:15PM and Friday's to end at 04:15PM-> This is 25 hours and is a restriction. If you change your friday End time to 3:15PM, there will be no error.

However, In order to achieve the true combined session which is reflective of all trading breaks, you must also take in consider the 45 minute trading halt from 3:15 p.m to 3:30 p.m. The US Index Futures then reopen at 3:30PM and the true "End of Day" is at 4:15PM.

I've attached two screenshots. The first is the trading hours session window which should have all the configured day/times you're looking for.



The second screen shot is a chart configured with this session template and color coded to highlight the various session breaks that occur throughout a single trading day to demonstrate how a trading day with this custom session would be calculated.




I've also included this as the .xml file which you can easily install in Documents\NinjaTrader 8\templates\TradingHours

[RanchoDinero]

OK, gotcha.

But the CME US Index Session ends at 4:15 on Friday. Doesn't matter if it's 25 hours, right? You have to be able to include the while trading time or that's a bug I think. If the Friday RTH session were to end at end at 3:15 that makes one hour of trading for the week vanish.

If I get what you're saying you'd have end Friday at 3:15 and make another 45 min session from 3:30-4:15, which seems wonky. But possible as a workaround I suppose.

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

The Regular Session ends at 3:15, the End of Day is 4:15. Trading then begins 5:00. This occurs each day.

Trading can resumes after the regular session, during the 45 minute extended session that occurs between 3:30 and 4:15. Trades executed during that time fall into the prior session. It is not a new trading date until 5:00.

[RanchoDinero]

OK, sure, that's fine.

The central point here's that the user should be able to define session breaks and the EOD wherever they want and have as many sessions as they want per day or week as long as each session doesn't overlap.

Why would NT want to take those decisions away from the user? What is the user benefit of the current constraints? What is the advantage to NT of having them?

Your decision of course, but I can't see the rationale as a user (or developer on the platform) of these constraints.

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

Segments that span >2 days will cause improper timestamps for daily or higher charts, thus the restriction for that scenario.

There are no restrictions for the number of session breaks in a day. The only restriction here is that you can only have one End Of Day in a given "Trading Day". The end of day marker is to designate which session segments belong together. If you try setting more than one EOD for the same day, they are no longer the same session which does not make sense for a particular day, and thus the error. We're not familiar with a trading session that has more than one true end of day for a particular day. Please educate us if missed the mark here.

Just so we're on the same page, what exactly do you define as the End of Day? What was your intention by having more than one End of Day marker for a particular day of week?

[RanchoDinero]

For the equities futures, the cash close and the 15m after the cash close (3:15) are important prices. The 4:15 close tends to not matter, so making 4:15 the EOD is not desired even though the session from 5PM on is the last session of the clock/calendar day. The current constraints don't let me put the EOD marker where I want it to go.

There is a similar case for other instruments too, not just the equities futures. It's the difference between the actual dynamics and behavior of an instrument as opposed to the contract definition/hours.

Again, this is something that a trader/user should have full control over in my view. If I am creating session definitions a certain way, it's because I see a pattern and I want to frame it visually, on my chart.

I'm only advocating that NT shouldn't take that power away from me.