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    #16
    Originally posted by koganam View Post
    What about the customer who writes to you: "I am not educated enough to be able to explain the words that you do not understand, by stating how to physically do what I am asking!"

    No kidding. That is a pretty clear paraphrase of what one customer said to me when I said he should describe physically what he does when he is doing a so-called "2-bar trail". Of course, I had an idea what he meant, but he had been so muddled in his thinking all along, that I wanted to be sure that he was describing what he meant, and that it matched what I thought that it meant.
    Yah mon, I feel your pain. Been there, done that.

    It comes down to the customer's ability to communicate. But, in my experience, the buck really stops with the programmer's ability to read the vague tea leaves scattered helter-skelter in the customer's "communications" of what they want.

    I'd suggest having your customer do screen recordings of their trades, as well as ample use of TeamViewer to view their screen. (Skype screen sharing is not always sufficient, since sometimes you'll want to take over the mouse and point out something on their screen while you ask questions about it.)

    Have them find a market replay area showing 5-15 mins of their perfect setup. Then ask them for a screen recording of them talking about what their eyeballs are watching during this setup, and make sure they provide ample commentary during the recording.

    I kid you not. Get them to focus on the actions of their eyeballs. Yes, eyeballs, not their fingers, not the mouse, make them verbally describe what their eyeballs are looking at ... at every step of their setup. You can ask the why's and what-for's after you get this basic watching-over-their-shoulder screencast video.

    [Edit: The point of the eyeball screen-recording exercise is to slow their minds down to make them explain verbally why they are looking at the things they are looking at. In effect, you guide them into teaching you what it is they're doing. It may take them 10 minutes to explain what they do in 10 seconds -- which, come to think of it, might be just the right ratio of audio commentary to eyeball action needed to help someone learn someone else's setups.]

    It also helps, in my experience, for a customer to use (colored) pen and paper to literally draw the perfect setup, coloring in their green and red bars, adding in their CCI, EMAs, or whatever. Sounds childish, but this literally forces the customer to first depict their setup rules graphically, allowing your followup Q&A (aka, the descriptive words) to describe the graphical drawing to become a collaborative endeavor secondary to the graphical drawing.

    [Edit: Also, have the customer find their perfect chart setup and take screenshots. Help the customer markup the screenshot to show what their eyeballs are looking at.]

    And, yes, finally, I suppose, some people just don't have the vocabulary to describe what it is they are doing or wanting.

    With those folks, what they have is a failure to communicate. At some point, you just gotta give up, wish them well, and exit the burning building as quickly and quietly as possible.
    Last edited by bltdavid; 09-16-2016, 05:14 PM.

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      #17
      I have been talking to a lot of programmers here in Montreal that are not certified ninjatrader coder. Find a professional is very difficult, i understand some clients arent very good at explaining what they want but when you spend 2 days with a c# coder to tell him what is a cumulative moving average and he still not able to make it right, you just give up and find another one. Not all programmers are good at math and can code what you want. Here anyone can tell you he's a programmer without any credentials because they have no professionel association.

      I'm trying to learn using ressources on the net and in the help guide. But there are typo errors in the help guide and it doesnt help the learning. At least these last days i learned just enough to understand how elaborate is, what i'm asking to a coder. I got one guy who has a good reputation but he wont be available until november.

      I know what i want and i can tell you it doesnt resemble anything you ever programmed. Probably why i have tough times finding anyone good. In that business trust is everything and a piece of paper wont help you much against dishonest people.

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        #18
        Originally posted by frankduc View Post
        I have been talking to a lot of programmers here in Montreal that are not certified ninjatrader coder. Find a professional is very difficult, i understand some clients arent very good at explaining what they want but when you spend 2 days with a c# coder to tell him what is a cumulative moving average and he still not able to make it right, you just give up and find another one. Not all programmers are good at math and can code what you want. Here anyone can tell you he's a programmer without any credentials because they have no professionel association.

        I'm trying to learn using ressources on the net and in the help guide. But there are typo errors in the help guide and it doesnt help the learning. At least these last days i learned just enough to understand how elaborate is, what i'm asking to a coder. I got one guy who has a good reputation but he wont be available until november.

        I know what i want and i can tell you it doesnt resemble anything you ever programmed. Probably why i have tough times finding anyone good. In that business trust is everything and a piece of paper wont help you much against dishonest people.
        You mean that you think that what you want is not even a beginner project in the first place?

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          #19
          I'm not talking about the cumulative average, that is beginner level. According to a good programmer what i'm asking is rather simple. Its just strange that you call c# specialize firms and they have tough times programming a cumulative moving average. Dont you think? How long do you estimate converting the VWMA into a cumulative VWMA? Good for you if its easy it might be at beginner level but the rest has probably nothing to do with what people usually ask you to code.

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            #20
            Originally posted by frankduc View Post
            I have been talking to a lot of programmers here in Montreal that are not certified ninjatrader coder. Find a professional is very difficult, i understand some clients arent very good at explaining what they want but when you spend 2 days with a c# coder to tell him what is a cumulative moving average and he still not able to make it right, you just give up and find another one. Not all programmers are good at math and can code what you want. Here anyone can tell you he's a programmer without any credentials because they have no professionel association.

            I'm trying to learn using ressources on the net and in the help guide. But there are typo errors in the help guide and it doesnt help the learning. At least these last days i learned just enough to understand how elaborate is, what i'm asking to a coder. I got one guy who has a good reputation but he wont be available until november.

            I know what i want and i can tell you it doesnt resemble anything you ever programmed. Probably why i have tough times finding anyone good. In that business trust is everything and a piece of paper wont help you much against dishonest people.
            IMHO, unless you're talking to an experienced NinjaScript programmer, you are wasting your time. And you'll waste money, too.

            What I mean is: the NinjaScript framework is a considerable learning curve. Just because you're talking to a C# programmer doesn't mean anything. Without understanding trading, indicators, the NinjaScript "plugin" coding model, etc, that C# programmer has too little experience to be effective with your request.

            I doubt if what you're asking for is that earth-shattering. I mean, indicators and strategies all generally do the same thing. To think that an experienced programmer can't fulfill a well-communicated design request is ... well, chances are they can.

            Talk to koganam, or talk to Anthony at PureLogik. If you need an NDA from them, say so, and they'll probably accommodate you.

            It also sounds like you need to accept the inevitability of using skype to communicate with experienced programmers outside of your area.

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              #21
              For the most part i agree with you. Skype is not an issue. Well could be with my windows XP. But its more about trust. Its more easy when you know people that worked with the programmer and tell you this guy is good and trustwhorty. Soon or later i may give up to one of them (a ninjatrader programmer).

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