Pay $100 for "advanced" training???!!!

[Simon]

Before I say anything ...what are others feelings about this?

[mkreegar]

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You'll never see me pay $100.00 to get training, from the vendor, of software I'm already paying for.

Really, this is the most nickle and dime the customers to death software that I've experienced.

I like the software, but the business practices?????

Matt

:X

[Terry Taylor]

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I agree.

Terry

[cashmein]

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I disagree. I just made $1K the first day with NT by just watching the videos 200 times, reading the documentation 300 times and practicing all weekend with the software until my eyes turned red. Heck I figure if I attend training maybe there will be some feature of the program that will at least maintain that rate. BTW today it has made me over $500 before the first hour.

I'm sort of seeing it this way. NT gave me a free $100 to attend training.Never being one to pass up a free meal I guess I'll be sitting down at the table.

But of course this is just my 2 cents worth!

[mkreegar]

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Cashmein,

I am glad that you are doing well with NT, but your comments miss the point, in my view.

When you lease software the vendor is obligated to provide whatever information is available on how to use the product, at no additional charge. That is most of what your lease payment is for.

Instead of spending so much effort coming up with ways to charge customers for what should be included support, NT should be putting its efforts in to getting all this information on the website, so it is available to all users of NinjaTrader.

By the way Cashmein, NT DID NOT give you "a free $100 to attend training" or anything else. If you made good trades that's your accomplishment - not NT's.

As I've said before I like the NT platform. What I don't like are the unjustified charges for support.

Matt

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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NinjaTrader, LLC support, training, videos and other support resources are included in the subscription costs. Introducing advanced training has not taken anything away from what is currently offered to the NT user community as part of the service. This new service is part live trading and is optional. I respect your opinion and as always allow everyone to express it in a public fourm.I appreciate that.There is only so muchI can ecomically offer with a $50 subscription rate without increasing the price. Iam not a fan of increasing prices and therefore make this new program optional for those who see value in it and wish to pay for it.

[cashmein]

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The way I look at it is if I don't take the training (for a measly $100) I will always wonder if I could have made more money by listening to someone who was an expert. If I do take the training and loose my shirt I still have only myself to blame. A subscription company has to draw the line somewhere. After all if one subscribes to Life magazine, you get a magazine in the mail. Life also offers OTHER STUFF like music CD'setc. The way I see it this is OTHER STUFF at a reasonable price.

[mkreegar]

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Cashmein,

And when you buy a car you are not charged extra for the operating instructions.

And I do agree with you that if you do or don't make money - it is entirely your responsibility, which of course has nothing to do with the issue of product support.

Matt

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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And as I stated, the operating instructions and videos and live sessions are still there, will be there and have not been taken away. If you want to learn how to drive your car on the race track, you can optionally go to race school.

[mkreegar]

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Ray,

Far be it from me to beat a dead horse and maybe the problem is that I just don't understand.

Here is the information that was provided by NT as to the material to be presented in session one:

Session 1 - How to use NinjaTrader

In the first session, students will learn how to operate NinjaTrader from soup to nuts. Topics covered are -

- How to navigate all aspects of the NinjaTrader user interface
- How to develop NinjaTrader strategies
- How to use Auto Chase, Auto Trail, Auto Breakeven and Simulated Stop features
- How to use the Instrument Manager
- How to use the Performance Manager
- How to use the Auto Reverse and Shadow features
- How to set up NinjaTrader

Maybe I'm wrong here, but this doesn't look like race school material to me. It looks like core operating instructions. Without useable knowledge of the information to be presented in session one there would seem to be little value in leasing NT.

I guess I can see more justification in charging for the live sessions.

Well I think I've made all the comments I need to about this particular issue.

And Ray - I do appreciate the fact that you allow uncensored discussions.

Matt

[Simon]

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ninjatrader wrote:

And as I stated, the operating instructions and videos and live sessions are still there, will be there and have not been taken away. If you want to learn how to drive your car on the race track, you can optionally go to race school.

The implication is that if you want to learn the very best stuff (i.e. the really good money-making tips), then sign up for Advanced Training because it's only available there. Technically this is optional. But it's a classic case of "marketing hype for newbies" in my opinion.

Here's a thought. There is no such thing as "Advanced Training". Either you can figure out how to use NinjaTrader from the existing materials and support or you can't. Assuming that most people are capable of watching videos and emailing any remaining questions - then there is nothing else to "learn" in terms of using the software.

In which case, what we have here, is simple demand from newer traders to watch someone else trade live. Someone else that they think is more experienced and profitable than they are. That's what any person who spends $100.00 is actually hoping to get out of the deal! They want to see what Ray knows about TRADING that could help them. What he knows about NinjaTrader is secondary.

So I have a provocative question for those aspiring traders about to splash $100 - how do you know that Ray is a good or even a profitable trader? Developing software is not the same thing as trading after all.

Indeed, how do you know that paying ME $100 for just three hours of watching me trade live with NinjaTrader, won't in fact make you a whole pile more money? By popular demand, I would therefore like to offer ....

Five grand for six hours work is just too damned good to turn down

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

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I am not promoting thatI am teaching live trading methods, its applying NinjaTrader features in a live market environment. Maybe instead of calling it advanced training, I should just call it "more training" ???

[cashmein]

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The horses feet now appear to be pointing straight up. But it's the sick looking bull that has me concernedat the moment.

[QuahTrader]

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mkreegar wrote:

Cashmein,

And when you buy a car you are not charged extra for the operating instructions.

Matt

When you buy a BMW or a Porsche - they offer you advanced driver training at one of their driver training schools - at your cost - they don't give it to you for free.

[mkreegar]

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QuahTrader,

Is your reply supposed to be serious or is it a joke?

Let me repost the subjects being taught in session one of this "advanced course", since you apparently didn't read it.

Session 1 - How to use NinjaTrader

In the first session, students will learn how to operate NinjaTrader from soup to nuts. Topics covered are -

- How to navigate all aspects of the NinjaTrader user interface
- How to develop NinjaTrader strategies
- How to use Auto Chase, Auto Trail, Auto Breakeven and Simulated Stop features
- How to use the Instrument Manager
- How to use the Performance Manager
- How to use the Auto Reverse and Shadow features
- How to set up NinjaTrader

These are not advanced subjects; they are core use features. Without these features NT is just a simple order enty platform like IB's Trader workstation, which is free.

The only reason we lease NT is specifically to use the features to be presented in session one. Therefore, by definition, they are core features and should be free. Without these core features NT has no reason to exist.

The Porshe and BMW examples simply have no relevancy to this topic. Porshe and BMW DO NOT Charge extra for information as to the basic functions and/or features of their cars. And basic funtions are what we are discussing here.

Matt