NT .12 - Rebooting after exploding!!

[r2kTrader]

Support,

I made the mistake of upgrading from .10 to .12 today and now when I run a strategy using the replay data, the system blows up at a certain point after the system runs for a while. Of course NT isn't nice about, it REBOOTS MY WHOLE Computer! (that is not acceptable).

I am very concerned about a program that can reboot my pc without any warning. It's clearly violating the system and not playing in its own sandbox.

Ok, so now the fun begins.

1. Yes, replicated the error. This time, after rebooting, I loaded NOTHING, and my services are next to nothing. It's dedicated for trading. No viruses, etc., the box is clean clean clean and tweaked.

2. I reset the database. Still same problem.

3. I was running my strategy at 500x speed on the replay. Runs fine, then just reboots the computer.

So before you make me jump through hoops, can you tell me if there are any know issues in this area and if there is something I can do to avoid my computer rebooting.

I am trading live, with real money, so this is VERY concerning to me.

This stinks :-(




Thank you,


r2kTrader

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

NT did not reboot your system. NT does not have this ability. However any program, including NT, if not run properly or run without the proper resources can make your computer run out of memory or some other issue that could cause your computer to crash.

We will not make you run through hoops, but we will provide steps that we feel will fix the issue. My suggestions are below:


1) Please rename your database.
To rename the DB:

• Shutdown NinjaTrader and Go to the Start Menu
• Select My Documents--> NinjaTrader 6.5--> DB--> NinjaTrader.MDB.
• Right click on NinjaTrader.MDB and select "Rename."
• Name it "NewNinjaTrader.MDB."
• Then restart the software.

2) Cross check your computer resources here:

http://www.ninjatrader.com/webnew/support_installationguide.htm

3) Tells us exactly how to reproduce the issue using the SampleMACrossOver strategy.

[r2kTrader]

Ben,

Semantics. NT violated my system causing it to reboot. Of course NT doesn't reboot systems as a feature or intentionally. Come on Ben, can we get past the 123 support semantics and get focused on the issue. NT played outside its sandbox and cause the system to reboot. FACT!

Here are my findings:

I ran the system replay on the strategy in normal speed overnight, when I woke up this morning, it was rebooted. So it has nothing to do with the "speed" at which the reply ran. That's been proven.

I also took the liberty of running the system on the SMA cross sample, and it did not reboot. I even set it to 50 ticks and the cross to make a trade almost every few seconds. No reboot.

The problem lies somewhere in my code. So now comes the process of elimination. Of course NT has no real debugger, so it's on to the land of fun and games and of course, probably installing VS 2008. I wanted to do that anyway, but under more favorable circumstances.

With all that being said, it's no excuse to reboot. If my code compiles and runs, it should do so in a sandbox of some kind that will insulating it from bringing down the whole system.

I'm going to check my XP error log now and see if anything is interesting and I would like a how-to from NT about tracing this issue.

Let me reply to your post below. Yes you are making me run through loops, because I told you I already reset the database (that's standard protocol for me these days. I learned to keep a copy of a fresh .mdb file after adding all my instruments that I want to use and then saving it clean after initial configuration. So "1" below was done, which I took the time to explain. I also told you about my system resources in "2" below. I of course told you that I had 1G of memory. You can't have a system with 1G of memory with less hardware then your min requirements. I'm running XP, I told you the last updates, no viruses, my BOX IS CLEAN and TWEAKED to perfection.

Ben, I am very upset about this. It's so time consuming and on top of that it disrupted my weekend I had set aside for programming, which is time that is hard to find these days. Instead, I am working for Ninja in their dojo, and not getting paid and then being given instructions to perform tasks which I stated I already did. That's pretty upsetting, especially when you trade live money and you are a paying customer. I would expect such support if I was using your software for free as it would simply be good form to reciprocate.

You give me the typical reply (which I saw coming), you suggest things I told you I already did.

My findings:

1. The problem is in my code somewhere.
2. This does not excuse NT from a reboot!
3. This did NOT happen prior to .10!

What did you change in .10 to .12 that could cause a problem like this? I know replay market data has always been flaky. (I reported a bug about 18 months ago, that I saw in the release notes that you fixed). Replay Market data is great, but it is far from smooth. There are a lot of bugs in it. (I have a list, but none of them rebooted my computer up to this point and yes I can replicate the bugs, they just didn't bring my whole box down and I worked around them).

So in the end, after reading your reply, you gave me nothing other than can I replicate the problem.

The answer is yes. But I do not feel comfortable giving my code to anyone.

Again, this doesn't explain why it worked fine in .10 and not in .12??


1. How do I downgrade easily. (as a backup plan).
2. What it the procedure you would use to isolate the problem.

In closing, you would be upset too if you took the time to provide enough detail to get an answer other than a generic response.

Anyone who reads the first post will see I already addressed your suggestions prior to your post and as such will appreciate my frustration as a paying customer. It is better not to reply and wait until Monday, than to post a stock response that shows you didn't read my post. That is just more infuriating and wastes everyone time.

My weekend was mostly spent on your bug and trying to isolate it. Throw me an error, don't dabble in memory where you don't belong. Regardless of what my code is, NT has no business being the cause of a reboot.

My uneducated and noob opinion is that there is a memory leak of some kind. Why this occurs only in .12 is where you come in.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

r2kTrader, I definitely understand your concerns. However let me try to clarify:
- NT itself definitely NEVER would reboot your system. The only situation I ever could think of, is that the .NET runtime somehow "might" interfere with your Windows OS and thus cause it to reboot your system
- I personally NEVER have heard of any situation/scenario where corrupted .NET code would cause a system reboot
- our code in that regards hasn't changed been 6.5.0.1000.10 and 6.5.1000.12
- you definitely could code NinjaScript that is would reboot your system (I'm not saying you did). However, ANY of that code would be out of NT's control

Here is what I suggest:
- it might sound silly, but please double check that your NinjaScript does NOT purposely reboot your system on some condition
- in case your NinjaScript code is solely C# code I could not think of any situation it could cause a reboot unless you purposely coded it. It would be different if your C# code called some native code like windows DLLs, 3rd party native code DLLs or even any self-coded native code (like C/C++ unmanaged). Then "anything" could happen and again would be totally out of NT's control.
- it might make a difference if you tried to uninstall NT, the .NET runtime and re-install both. This is pure speculation, but the best I could offer at this time.

Thanks

[r2kTrader]

Here is some new info:

Using Market Replay

1. When I run the strategy from the strategy tab, and not the chart, it doesn't reboot.

2. When I am running as per #1 above, and I change to the Executions tab to follow the trades, after so many trades, it will reboot.

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

I will have someone reply on Monday. Thank you for your patience.

[r2kTrader]

Dierk,

Thank you for the reply.

I was doing the EXACT same "routine testing" in .10 and then upgraded to .12 and the lovely reboot began.

No, I am absolutely not calling a reboot routine of any kind.

This is related to NT, plan and simple. I have not had an XP box with SP3 EVER reboot on me. It's NT, can we focus on finding the memory leak.

It gets frustrating when you have to "prove" NT to be the culprit. This was the same drill I went through with Jason when reporting the last Replay Market bug relating to the DOM not updating correctly (which was later fixed and acknowledged).

There is a bug, plain and simple. It's somewhere between .10 and .12. This is not my first rodeo. I know computers well.

You can point the finger to .NET, and that's fine, but the fact is it has been narrowed to NT's use of .NET. From the trader/customer's perspective, it's being caused by NT.

If there is an issue with NT and it's use of .NET, then use gcc and port to linux or eliminate that piece which .NET doesn't like or let us know.

It's now Sunday at 1pm, and instead of developing, I am working for NT. Seriously, I don't want to debug something that isn't related to my development.

Also note, that this issue does not occur when the indicator is run by itself. As it stands, I simply have a bool that I fire in the indicator that I access from the strategy. If true, take trade. If I set it all the same, and use Print("take trade"); instead, then I get no reboot.

so:

1. I have not verified if this is specific to market replay only, or if it will happen when I trade with real money during the day. (NOT GOOD!)

2. It only reboots if I have an actual trade being executed, specifically when on Chart, or Executions tab from control panel. When I run this from the strategy tab, without a chart or watching the execution, then it runs fine.

I would be happy to provide the indicator, but I will have to obfuscate everything first, and that will take a little time, and of course I am not getting paid for my time.

I verified this does not happen on .10 on another machine. I am not going to upgrade that machine because .12 is clearly not stable. Not that .10 was, but it NEVER rebooted on me. Errors, etc., but rebooting? Unacceptable. This is a serious issue.

[r2kTrader]

Support,

After reviewing my posts, I feel I have come across a little more harsh than is necessary. I think it comes from the fact that I know what I am in for and I am not looking forward to it.

Anyway, I have provided some areas that merit investigation.

In the meantime, I will kludge along using the strategy tab and poke around at trying to further isolate the issues. I will lose the ability to trade the trading in real time on the chart, which is priceless, but my hope is that we will have some type of answer sooner than later.

Thanks, and I don't mean to be too hard on your guys. Again, I just know when pain is coming and I wasn't excited about it. Our business can be a stressful business ;-)


Regards,

[r2kTrader]

Nt Rebooting ! Worse Than I Thought!

I had the tick chart running from the replay data. I was using chart trader.

I only had MACD indicator on the screen. I was doing some trades manually to test, and the system rebooted.

1. So take my code out of the equation.

2. MACD with Chart Trader only.

.12 is a disaster. I don't know what you guys changed, but I'm unstable now.

I guess I will just have to be patient.

Frustrated,

[r2kTrader]

Can I backup .12 using the NT backup, uninstall .12 completely ridding myself of this bug ridden version, and then install .10 and restore the backup? Was anything on the data side changed in .12?

Thanks,

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

I suggest completely uninstalling .NET and NT and reinstalling both as per my post below.

Also: If you have to chance to try on a different machine then this might help as well isolating the cause of trouble.

[r2kTrader]

Dierk,

I uninstalled .12 and reinstalled. I then went to try the application to duplicate problem. Instead of rebooting, I am hanging now. There was also a memory dump. Leaky leaky memory issues in NT.


Event Type: Error
Event Source: Application Hang
Event Category: (101)
Event ID: 1002
Date: 8/16/2009
Time: 4:31:24 PM
User: N/A
Computer: Trading1
Description:
Hanging application NinjaTrader.exe, version 6.5.1000.12, hang module hungapp, version 0.0.0.0, hang address 0x00000000.
Data:
0000: 41 70 70 6c 69 63 61 74 Applicat
0008: 69 6f 6e 20 48 61 6e 67 ion Hang
0010: 20 20 4e 69 6e 6a 61 54 NinjaT
0018: 72 61 64 65 72 2e 65 78 rader.ex
0020: 65 20 36 2e 35 2e 31 30 e 6.5.10
0028: 30 30 2e 31 32 20 69 6e 00.12 in
0030: 20 68 75 6e 67 61 70 70 hungapp
0038: 20 30 2e 30 2e 30 2e 30 0.0.0.0
0040: 20 61 74 20 6f 66 66 73 at offs
0048: 65 74 20 30 30 30 30 30 et 00000
0050: 30 30 30 000

[r2kTrader]

Dierk,

As per my posts, yes, I did that already.

I suggest completely uninstalling .NET and NT and reinstalling both as per my post below.

Also: If you have to chance to try on a different machine then this might help as well isolating the cause of trouble.

[r2kTrader]

Wasted some more time

Dierk,

I did as you requested.

Same problem, still rebooting.

No other .nets installed, just the 2.0 as per the NT link.

This stinks.

[r2kTrader]

I downgraded to .11

FYI: there is a bug in the properties when you go to manually select the instrument before starting a strategy it throws an error.

Was this fixed in .12? If not, it's a bug that can be reproduced. Let me know.

Anyway, running .11 (not .10 as before), so far so good, but I also ripped out all the indicators and strategies. My logic was that since NT is one big indicator and strategy class, there might have been offending code that was causing issues, even though I wasn't actually using the strategy or indicator with the possibly offending code? Just a theory.

So I don't know if downgrading to .11 might have helped, or scrubbing the ind/strats and letting NT install all the stock ones.