NT7/Collective2 execution questions

[molecool]

I have an ES E-Mini scalping strategy executing 5 - 6 round trips a day that I would like to hook up to C2. Now, I have a few pertinent questions:

1) I understand that limit orders automatically turn into market orders with C2. Can you confirm that?

2) Assuming a CME market order, slippage is automatically limited to half of the no bust range, which is 3.00 points. So if ES is trading at 1050, and you enter a market sell order, it actually becomes a limit order at 1047. Can you also confirm that?

3) Assuming the above, is there any way to curtail slippage with C2?

4) Finally, my strategy runs against the sim101 account and it executes one contract at a time (with a one contract stop). Now, if anyone subscribing to my strategy via C2 wants to execute more than one contract automatically - how can that be done? I read about the multiplier but it confused me a little. In short: Can the C2 subscriber choose the number of contracts being executed? Obviously folks have different account sizes.

Your input would be greatly appreciated.

Best,

Molecool

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Hi Molecool,

1) Yes, this is correct - limit order filled in NT, market order to replicate sent to C2 to track.

2) Can't confirm that unfortunately, would be best to check with C2 how they handle this.

3) Sorry, same as 2

4) This is just for tracking purposes, so you can for example set the recommended min account size in relation to your system's regular position size, subscribers are able to trade multiple amounts of course as they desire.

[molecool]

Two out of four :-)

Hi Molecool,

1) Yes, this is correct - limit order filled in NT, market order to replicate sent to C2 to track.

2) Can't confirm that unfortunately, would be best to check with C2 how they handle this.

3) Sorry, same as 2

4) This is just for tracking purposes, so you can for example set the recommended min account size in relation to your system's regular position size, subscribers are able to trade multiple amounts of course as they desire.

Thanks Bertrand - appreciate answers to 1) and 4) - I think 2) is more of a CME thing, not a C2 issue.

If someone else here has hooked into C2 and can speak about 2) and 3) it would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers,

Molecool

[NinjaTrader_Bertrand]

Molecool, for 2 you're correct referring to Globex 'Market with Protection' order scheme -

http://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/CME/I/5/88K.html

From the Globex reference guide from CMEGroup:

Market with Protection:

Market orders at CME Group are implemented using a “Market with Protection” approach. Unlike a conventional Market order, where customers are at risk of having their orders filled at extreme prices, Market with Protection orders are filled within a
predefined range of prices (the protected range). The protected range is typically the
current best bid or offer, plus or minus 50 percent of the product’s No Bust Range.
If the entire order cannot be filled within the protected range, the unfilled quantity
remains on the book as a Limit order at the limit of the protected range.

[molecool]

Molecool, for 2 you're correct referring to Globex 'Market with Protection' order scheme -

http://www.cmegroup.com/rulebook/CME/I/5/88K.html

So, I guess it IS theoretically possible to place a market order and not get filled in a crash situation. Scary if that also applies to stop orders as those would turn into stop limit orders (and may be bypassed during a sudden drop).

[molecool]

Follow up question

I just spoke to a sales guy from OEC and he told me that Collective2 also charges $3.98 per round trip for futures trading. WOW! Add to that the commission for the broker and you are close to $8 to $9 round trip for each trade! Now that gets expensive in a hurry and may greatly reduce any profits made via a scalping strategy. Let's not forget that C2 also charges me 30% of all my profits - so both sides get charged.

Question: What other avenues exist to allow me to offer a complete package to my own subscribers? All I need to do is to relay my trading signals to one or a handful of compatible brokers. I don't like the C2 option - what else is there?

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

NinjaTrader does not submit anything to brokerages. That is all done on a client basis. If you distribute your strategy to your subscribers individually, they could run it on their own accounts at whichever brokerage they use and then they will be able to get your signals.

[molecool]

NinjaTrader does not submit anything to brokerages. That is all done on a client basis. If you distribute your strategy to your subscribers individually, they could run it on their own accounts at whichever brokerage they use and then they will be able to get your signals.

I think you misunderstood Josh. I know that NT does not submit anything to brokerages. I am merely trying to replace C2 with something else. My clients are not sophisticated enough to run NT on their end. What I seek is an execution interface for my clients in response to my trading signals.

[NinjaTrader_JoshP]

Unfortunately there is nothing similar to what C2 has. If every one of your clients were on IB, you could potentially try adding their accounts onto some friends and family account where you get to manage it for them, but I don't know if they would let you do that.

[molecool]

Okay, thanks for the input - much appreciated.

[sf631]

Have you looked at kaching or covestor? Both replicate your trades by tracking your brokerage fills (ie not your NT signals) and use those to auto-trade the SMAs. They each take a pound of flesh of the mgmt fees, but not anything else as far as i know

[molecool]

I will check those out - THANKS!!