NT for Linux ... ?

[omololu]

to JC

I suggest you go MAC, I can confirm NT6.5 runs very well under VMWARE Fusion + XP,
I think running under a virtual machine has several other advantages, like restoring your environment after a system breakdown on a different computer in a minute.

I use this setting at work, and with only 500 megs of ram dedicated to the Vm the performance i get is on par with any dedicated Vista machine with 1gig of ram...

Andrea,

You are right.

I've had my MacBookPro 17" 4GB RAM + VMWare Fusion + XP + NT6.5 running very very smoothly for a year now. I allocate 1.5GB RAM to XP; I also have the Anvira AntiVir antivirus on the XP (just a protection for XP; no antivirus for my MAC). I've recently added a 42" LCD. I'll upgrade the Mac to 8GM RAM in December and allocate 3GB to XP. I'm current beta-testing NT7 on the same setup and it is running smoothly too (except for NT7 "beta" behaviour).

I'll stick to this Mac setup since NinjaTrader is not in the mood for a native Mac NT.

[Treggs]

For those running virtual machines on a mac, wouldn't it be better to run windows natively using bootcamp? Then you could use all your machines resources to run NT which is a definite advantage if you are backtesting.

I understand the appeal of a virtual machine being moved between machines but the same can be managed using the NT backup feature.

[omololu]

For those running virtual machines on a mac, wouldn't it be better to run windows natively using bootcamp? Then you could use all your machines resources to run NT which is a definite advantage if you are backtesting.

I understand the appeal of a virtual machine being moved between machines but the same can be managed using the NT backup feature.

With VM, the Guest OS (e. g. XP + NT + all other XP related/associated tools) can be moved to another Mac machine as quickly as 3 minutes. With Bootcamp, the backup process for XP is not as fast and simple.

At present, I don't want to do Bootcamp method because I don't want to dedicate the whole MacBook Pro machine to XP. Whilst the XP + NT is running, I can use Safari or just see my incoming mails in the MAILS client tool. I can also use SPACES (a very special tool in MAC OS X) to simultaneously see four screens (XP + NT in one screen, Safari in a 2nd screen, MAILS in the 3rd screen, and my desktop containing Crude oil price, US Dollar Index, and Gold spot widgets live charts in the 4th screen). However, adequate RAM + Hard disk size is required to cope with all these.

I'll prefer to dedicate an iMac machine to an XP + NT setup using Bootcamp method, and consequently having XP completely take-over the Mac machine.

[Treggs]

Fair enough. Why not just build a dedicated windows desktop and run synergy to share your mouse and keyboard with the macbook. Best of both worlds and probably cheaper than an imac.

Spaces isn't a "special feature" in OSX. Linux has had virtual desktops for ages and I'm running virtual desktops on my windows machine. (Currently 6 virtual desktops on a triple monitor machine).

I use mainly open source software like firefox, thunderbird vlc etc so I can pretty much work from any platform. It just makes sense to run NT on a dedicated windows machine but you can see why I would like NT to work nicely on Ubuntu. I think eventually I'll run a second box with Ubuntu for all my daily tasks and connect to my current trading machine using synergy.

With VM, the Guest OS (e. g. XP + NT + all other XP related/associated tools) can be moved to another Mac machine as quickly as 3 minutes. With Bootcamp, the backup process for XP is not as fast and simple.

At present, I don't want to do Bootcamp method because I don't want to dedicate the whole MacBook Pro machine to XP. Whilst the XP + NT is running, I can use Safari or just see my incoming mails in the MAILS client tool. I can also use SPACES (a very special tool in MAC OS X) to simultaneously see four screens (XP + NT in one screen, Safari in a 2nd screen, MAILS in the 3rd screen, and my desktop containing Crude oil price, US Dollar Index, and Gold spot widgets live charts in the 4th screen). However, adequate RAM + Hard disk size is required to cope with all these.

I'll prefer to dedicate an iMac machine to an XP + NT setup using Bootcamp method, and consequently having XP completely take-over the Mac machine.

[omololu]

Fair enough. Why not just build a dedicated windows desktop and run synergy to share your mouse and keyboard with the macbook. Best of both worlds and probably cheaper than an imac.

Spaces isn't a "special feature" in OSX. Linux has had virtual desktops for ages and I'm running virtual desktops on my windows machine. (Currently 6 virtual desktops on a triple monitor machine).

I use mainly open source software like firefox, thunderbird vlc etc so I can pretty much work from any platform. It just makes sense to run NT on a dedicated windows machine but you can see why I would like NT to work nicely on Ubuntu. I think eventually I'll run a second box with Ubuntu for all my daily tasks and connect to my current trading machine using synergy.

Synergy/MAC OS X project is still incomplete.

MAC OS X "Spaces" has some features that makes it special or different. One of this is that MAC OS X is shipped with it. Another is that user can associate applications to a specific Space. It is also seamless is usage. See my attached screeshot.

I've used Linux (Gentoo, Suse, Fedora, etc) for years now and can conclude that it requires considerable technical knowledge to use and tweak it, unlike Windows and Mac. I've tweaked MetaTrader to work on Linux and MAC OS X, but not completely satisfactory. Linux and MAC OS X are all Unix derivatives, but MAC OS X just stands out. The only draw-back with Mac is its initial high cost and that's not favorable. Ubuntu is coming up to a good standing too. I shall appreciate it, if you will share your Ubuntu experience and setup with me.

I've installed Open Source Firefox and VLC on my Mac too, and they are OK.

I wish that NT is natively available on Mac and Linux (it seems an impossibility now).

[Treggs]

Synergy/MAC OS X project is still incomplete.

MAC OS X "Spaces" has some features that makes it special or different. One of this is that MAC OS X is shipped with it. Another is that user can associate applications to a specific Space. It is also seamless is usage. See my attached screeshot.

I've used Linux (Gentoo, Suse, Fedora, etc) for years now and can conclude that it requires considerable technical knowledge to use and tweak it, unlike Windows and Mac. I've tweaked MetaTrader to work on Linux and MAC OS X, but not completely satisfactory. Linux and MAC OS X are all Unix derivatives, but MAC OS X just stands out. The only draw-back with Mac is its initial high cost and that's not favorable. Ubuntu is coming up to a good standing too. I shall appreciate it, if you will share your Ubuntu experience and setup with me.

I've installed Open Source Firefox and VLC on my Mac too, and they are OK.

I wish that NT is natively available on Mac and Linux (it seems an impossibility now).

My Ubuntu setup is currently 9.10 dual booting on my trading box. I have been experimenting with VM's (virtual box and VMWare Workstation) and wine to get NT working. VMWare works well on a dual head Ubuntu box but three monitors and two video cards is proving to be unreliable.

On windows I use Virtual Dimension as a desktop manager and it also allows you to assign app to desktops. It's not as pretty as spaces but it works well and never crashes. There are better virtual desktop solutions for single screen windows boxes but virtual dimension works the best for me on a triple screen setup.

I have been messing with the idea of building a second machine to run Ubuntu on two monitors (allowing the nice desktop effects easily) and running this in tandem with my triple screen windows box. I would then be able to run ubuntu and windows at the same time to give me the best of both worlds. Ubuntu for my day to day tasks and windows for trading. That would allow me to offload all the extra stuff to the ubuntu box and really stream line the trading machine. The extra couple of monitors wouldn't hurt either

[omololu]

My Ubuntu setup is currently 9.10 dual booting on my trading box. I have been experimenting with VM's (virtual box and VMWare Workstation) and wine to get NT working. VMWare works well on a dual head Ubuntu box but three monitors and two video cards is proving to be unreliable.

On windows I use Virtual Dimension as a desktop manager and it also allows you to assign app to desktops. It's not as pretty as spaces but it works well and never crashes. There are better virtual desktop solutions for single screen windows boxes but virtual dimension works the best for me on a triple screen setup.

I have been messing with the idea of building a second machine to run Ubuntu on two monitors (allowing the nice desktop effects easily) and running this in tandem with my triple screen windows box. I would then be able to run ubuntu and windows at the same time to give me the best of both worlds. Ubuntu for my day to day tasks and windows for trading. That would allow me to offload all the extra stuff to the ubuntu box and really stream line the trading machine. The extra couple of monitors wouldn't hurt either

Thanks, for sharing this with me.

[Andrea Fare]

For those running virtual machines on a mac, wouldn't it be better to run windows natively using bootcamp? Then you could use all your machines resources to run NT which is a definite advantage if you are backtesting.

I understand the appeal of a virtual machine being moved between machines but the same can be managed using the NT backup feature.

Treggs, you are right but two aspects must be taken into consideration here:
1) The VM footprint is incredibly low nowadays
2) I trust the efforts of the VMware staff when putting together the "hardware" platform which is seen (virtually) by Windows as it runs in the VM, much more than i trust myself when assembling a custom PC the main reason being: it is virtually impossible to strive for perfect software-hardware compatibility without experimenting extensively.

This is why, I think, windows runs much better on VMWare fusion than on the average pc.
Ultimately windows targets a processor architecture not a hardware platform (as does MAC), when you play with the hardware platform you are embarking in an adventure. Of course if one is a geek, and loves to recompile, overclock, watercool in his spare time windows (an ultimately linux) are much better choices.

Regards.

[Treggs]

Andrea, fair points and I agree virtualization has come a long way. I just think the price of having separate hardware is worth it as I have a fair bit of experience building machines.

Makes sense we all use what works for each of us.

Treggs, you are right but two aspects must be taken into consideration here:
1) The VM footprint is incredibly low nowadays
2) I trust the efforts of the VMware staff when putting together the "hardware" platform which is seen (virtually) by Windows as it runs in the VM, much more than i trust myself when assembling a custom PC the main reason being: it is virtually impossible to strive for perfect software-hardware compatibility without experimenting extensively.

This is why, I think, windows runs much better on VMWare fusion than on the average pc.
Ultimately windows targets a processor architecture not a hardware platform (as does MAC), when you play with the hardware platform you are embarking in an adventure. Of course if one is a geek, and loves to recompile, overclock, watercool in his spare time windows (an ultimately linux) are much better choices.

Regards.

[r2kTrader]

Treggs,

If you are that concerned about the difference between the VM and native boot (maybe 5% difference?, others can tell you exactly what you give up, but I would guesstimate (snigglet) about 5% on the high end).

NT is free for testing. Setup old boxes to burn systems for you. It's cheaper and less time consuming than trying to get a square peg in a round hole.

Think "appliance". Software+Hardware = appliance. You want back testing appliances. This isn't about trying to make your life pretty and cozy and fit it all in your nice pretty mac. It's about utility and function. Computers are free and NT is free. When PCs that are 1 generation old can be procured on ebay for dirt cheap, it makes no sense to worry about getting things to run on different platforms. Are you also trying to get a microwave that is also your television and your refrigerator?

Seriously guys, I'm a HUGE linux advocate, but this is not about Linux. It's about TRADING, and whatever "appliance" you can find to do the job, you use and you build your platform around the appliance. There is no advantage for NT to go to Linux. As much as I would like it, it doesn't serve their market. You wouldn't go to GE and ask them to make your microwave fit in your refrigerator because you want it nice and neat and you don't like having two seperate power supplies.

They will tell you to simply put the Microwave on top of the refrigerator and stop emailing them with your suggetion ;-)

For those running virtual machines on a mac, wouldn't it be better to run windows natively using bootcamp? Then you could use all your machines resources to run NT which is a definite advantage if you are backtesting.

I understand the appeal of a virtual machine being moved between machines but the same can be managed using the NT backup feature.

[BHReach]

NT in VM under Linux

I shall appreciate it, if you will share your Ubuntu experience and setup with me.

I am testing NT on Slackware Linux under VirtualBox with XP. So far it works flawlessly.

XP is stripped down (remove all unused services and eye candy). It is fast and stable on the VB emulated hardware (i.e., it runs 24/7 for weeks without crashing). Only used for trading software so no antivirus software needed, it is behind my stateful Linux firewall and the XP firewall.

Windows OSes have had trouble with multitasking from the get go so the fewer programs you have running under XP the faster and more stable it is.

If you have a modern CPU with hardware virtualization, the performance difference between VM and native hardware is negligible (much less that the performance difference between a low end and high end computer).

I have 8GB ram on my computer and I assign 3GB to VM.

XP running in the Linux VM is faster than Vista on my laptop (it has only 2GB ram).

[tradetree]

I don't think NT developers or management have any metrics on how many people trade on Linux. I will only buy NT when Linux is supported. How many other people exist like myself?

[tradetree]

Oh and I forgot to mention that I've used Tradestation for years on Linux using VMware and I will not go back in that direction. It works for small time traders but not for significant volume and sophisticated algorithms. It is just too slow for professional use.

I don't think NT developers or management have any metrics on how many people trade on Linux. I will only buy NT when Linux is supported. How many other people exist like myself?

[greg814]

Thanks guys for your thoughts. Just started testing NT and my enthusiasm for it is somewhat diminished by my irritation about having to use Windows again. I'll try the various methods of running NT under Linux and might just go for the "buying a Windows trading box" option if it's not satisfactory.

But seriously, the Mac and Linux communities are only growing and if you're a company trying to sell a product (a very good one btw), then reaching out for those user groups is maybe not so far from interesting. Just a thought..

[RDPoS]

bump. I have about had it with windoze crashes with NT7. If it isn't the API, it is the historical data, or NT7 just freezing (3 times tonight already) forcing a hard kill.