Simultaneously long & short in the same market?

[Martinoc]

Is it possible to run multiple ATM's, both short & long simultaneously in the same market without;

1. Aggregating my account position &/or;

2. Having stops/targets from one open position closed by the stops/ targets of another?

F'rinstance...I'm in a longer-term trend & have multiple long position ATM's running from independent entry signals. At the same time, I want to be able to take advantage of a different strategy that calls for a quick scalp short, whilst maintaining the autonomy of each ATM strategy.

Can this be achieved via a single account, or would I have to have multiple accounts?

Would I need to use multiple DOM's? If so, how can this be achieved?

Part 2: If this CAN be achieved in one market, can it be done across multiple markets simultaneously using a single account?

I guess "Autonomy" is the crux of my question.

Thanks in advance.

Martin

[NinjaTrader_AdamP]

Martin,

To do this you would need to have multiple accounts unfortunately. Going long and short would essentially leave you in a flat state so you would own no contracts nor have sold any.

[Martinoc]

Hi Adam,

Forgive me, but I'm sure I've read somewhere withing the NT forums that some of this IS possible. I just need to work-out which parts of my (admittedly complex) question are achieveable & which parts aren't.

Thanx

[koganam]

Hi Adam,

Forgive me, but I'm sure I've read somewhere withing the NT forums that some of this IS possible. I just need to work-out which parts of my (admittedly complex) question are achieveable & which parts aren't.

Thanx

You will need multiple accounts. You can simultaneously run separate DOM's for each independent account.

There is no physically possible way to be long and short in the same instrument in the same account. The long position will simply cancel out the short position to make the account physically match the logically flat position.

[j2496i]

I wonder if the original question has been misinterpreted, as there is only one way I can make sense of this:

It may be that the OP is intending to hold a longer-term long position in his example. Call this his 'base' position if you like. While this trade is in progress, I am guessing that what he actually wants to do, is to temporarily reduce / flatten / reverse the long-term position, based on opposite-direction short signals from another timeframe or method - theoretically maximizing his profit by avoiding or profiting from retracements...

If this is correct, then surely he could do this all using one account, though the obvious question for me, would be how to prevent the the long-based ATMs from triggering undesirable orders during the periods when the base-position size is reduced or reversed, while still keeping them active...

...sound like this might be easier to write in code...

[koganam]

I wonder if the original question has been misinterpreted, as there is only one way I can make sense of this:

It may be that the OP is intending to hold a longer-term long position in his example. Call this his 'base' position if you like. While this trade is in progress, I am guessing that what he actually wants to do, is to temporarily reduce / flatten / reverse the long-term position, based on opposite-direction short signals from another timeframe or method - theoretically maximizing his profit by avoiding or profiting from retracements...

If this is correct, then surely he could do this all using one account, though the obvious question for me, would be how to prevent the the long-based ATMs from triggering undesirable orders during the periods when the base-position size is reduced or reversed, while still keeping them active...

...sound like this might be easier to write in code...

What you describe is evidently feasible, but then you would never be simultaneously long and short in the same instrument in the same account: you would either be long or short. The OP wanted simultaneity.

That is impossible because the exchange does not know or care if you are long or short; they simply buy or sell to your order. If you are long one contact and sell, they do not make you long one contract and short one contract; they simply sell one of the contracts that you had, taking you flat in that case.

[steve2222]

ATM Strategy Selection mode to 'DisplaySelectedAtmStrategyOnly'

I thought this was possible by opening two SuperDOMs for the same instrument and then changing the Properties to reflect what is in the title bar above.

In fact the NT help manual specifically uses the example of being long and short the same instrument at the same time without the different orders cancelling each other out.

So given NT allows/caters for this - how does the exchange actually deal with this given the other comments in this thread. Is it that NT keeps them seperate but the exchange is collapsing them? What would be the point of this then, it achieves nothing if the exchange does not recognise them as seperate/independent trades.

Manual extract:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN CONCURRENT ATM STRATEGIES IN THE SAME MARKET AND THE SAME ACCOUNT?

Absolutely, NinjaTrader's

Strategy Selection Modes allow you to limit the display in
the SuperDOM so that you can run concurrent ATM Strategies. One of the great
features of NinjaTrader is its ability to manage multiple virtual positions in the same
market. For example, this allows you to manage a long and short position in the same
market simultaneously.
Here is how this is accomplished:
Open 2 SuperDOMs and set them both to the same market
Right click in one of the SuperDOMs and select the menu "Properties"
Set the 'ATM Strategy selection mode' parameter to "

DisplaySelectedAtmStrategyOnly

"
Repeat the last two instructions on the second SuperDOM

Submit a buy order to open a long position in the first

SuperDOM

Submit a sell order to open a short position in the second

SuperDOM

[koganam]

I thought this was possible by opening two SuperDOMs for the same instrument and then changing the Properties to reflect what is in the title bar above.

In fact the NT help manual specifically uses the example of being long and short the same instrument at the same time without the different orders cancelling each other out.

So given NT allows/caters for this - how does the exchange actually deal with this given the other comments in this thread. Is it that NT keeps them seperate but the exchange is collapsing them? What would be the point of this then, it achieves nothing if the exchange does not recognise them as seperate/independent trades.

Manual extract:

IS IT POSSIBLE TO RUN CONCURRENT ATM STRATEGIES IN THE SAME MARKET AND THE SAME ACCOUNT?


Absolutely, NinjaTrader's

Strategy Selection Modes allow you to limit the display in

the

SuperDOM so that you can run concurrent ATM Strategies. One of the great

features of NinjaTrader is its ability to manage multiple virtual positions in the same

market. For example, this allows you to manage a long and short position in the same
market simultaneously.
Here is how this is accomplished:
Open 2

SuperDOMs and set them both to the same market

Right click in one of the

SuperDOMs and select the menu "Properties"

Set the

'ATM Strategy selection mode' parameter to "

DisplaySelectedAtmStrategyOnly

"

Repeat the last two instructions on the second

SuperDOM

Submit a buy order to open a long position in the first

SuperDOM

Submit a sell order to open a short position in the second

SuperDOM

Well, that one is pretty easy to verify. Go ahead and do this, then call your broker and ask her your position. If she says that you are simultaneously long and short, then I am wrong, I guess. If not, then either way, we have an answer.

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

To clarify, if you are long and short using the go long/go short instructions we have in our help guide, NinjaTrader is creating virtual positions to track on each SuperDOM. However your actual account with the broker will be flat.

[steve2222]

To clarify, if you are long and short using the go long/go short instructions we have in our help guide, NinjaTrader is creating virtual positions to track on each SuperDOM. However your actual account with the broker will be flat.

Thanks Mathew.

I do see the help guide extract uses the word 'virtual' but I was unsure what this meant in this context.

Would it not be best to amend your help guide to make it clear that the position at the exchange/in your account will not replicate this ie you will be flat.

[NinjaTrader_Matthew]

Hello,

Thank you for your feedback on these items. I will have this forwarded to our product development team to explain how this works more clearly.