Is Kinetick an inferior rebranding of DTN? Why the discrepancies?

[abfc123]

Hi,
We have numerous connection accounts to BOTH Kinetick and DTN.
I realize that Kinetick is a bundled product that utilizes/white-labels the DTN feed and uses the Exchange Fee Waiver as an incentive/enticer to use it and NinjaTrader.

We have a Live setup using DTN Premium, Ninja and Interactive Brokers. DTN is the Primary Feed.
We have a Paper setup using Kinetick Premium, Ninja and Interactive Brokers. Kinetick is the primary feed.

Both are running on the same FX pairs with the same strategies with identical configurations.

DTN is problem free.
Kinetick on the other hand drops out on a continual basis, a warning is given in the logging interface, then another message saying the connection is re-established.

The problem is that IT ISN'T!

Positions that should be shut down, ARE shut down on the DTN fed instance, but NOT the Kinetick one. I therefore have positions expensively going out of the money as a result of NinjaTraders inability to correctly inform of the status of its Kinetick feed.

You will see from the logs that it appears to have conflicting logic:-
5/21/2013 2:08:26 AM|1|2|Kinetick Realtime: Primary connection=ConnectionLost, Price feed=ConnectionLost
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|3|4|Kinetick.Adapter.L1Worker: System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond 66.112.156.112:60003
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.DoConnect(EndPoint endPointSnapshot, SocketAddress socketAddress)
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Connect(EndPoint remoteEP)
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Connect(IPAddress address, Int32 port)
at NinjaTrader.Dtn.DtnSocket.Connect()
at NinjaTrader.Dtn.Adapter3.L1Worker()
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|1|2|Kinetick Realtime: Primary connection=Connected, Price feed=Connected
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|1|64|Instrument '$CADJPY' Account='#####' Avg price=98.58 Quantity=1.8M Market position=Long
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|3|128|Strategy 'Strat65/1c4ada55ae7b4208a237c413695a6fa0' lost price connection but will keep running.

Has anyone else been experiencing the same issues?
The problem with asking this question is that most people wouldn't KNOW they have this issue because they are relying on NinjaTrader to inform/report them and handle the exceptions correctly. Additionally, if they weren't programmers and didn't have EXTERNAL Post Trade Analysis tools in place to monitor the performance of NinjaTrader most of these issues would not come to their attention.

pls feel free to pm me or preferably post to the open forum.

Regards

PS NinjaTrader IS started on a Daily basis and the feed connections refreshed as recommended.

[NinjaTrader_ChristopherS]

Hello abfc123,

Please send a note to Support [AT] NinjaTrader [DOT] com with "ATTN:Chris S" in the subject line.

In the message, please include the following:
1.) A link to this forum thread.
2.) Your latest log and trace file:

You will find the log file in the Documents > NinjaTrader 7 > Log folder.
The log file will be named "log.YYYYMMDD.txt"

You will find the trace file in the Documents > NinjaTrader 7 > Trace folder.
The trace file will be named "trace.YYYYMMDD.txt"

[molecool]

Hi,
We have numerous connection accounts to BOTH Kinetick and DTN.
I realize that Kinetick is a bundled product that utilizes/white-labels the DTN feed and uses the Exchange Fee Waiver as an incentive/enticer to use it and NinjaTrader.

We have a Live setup using DTN Premium, Ninja and Interactive Brokers. DTN is the Primary Feed.
We have a Paper setup using Kinetick Premium, Ninja and Interactive Brokers. Kinetick is the primary feed.

Both are running on the same FX pairs with the same strategies with identical configurations.

DTN is problem free.
Kinetick on the other hand drops out on a continual basis, a warning is given in the logging interface, then another message saying the connection is re-established.

The problem is that IT ISN'T!

Positions that should be shut down, ARE shut down on the DTN fed instance, but NOT the Kinetick one. I therefore have positions expensively going out of the money as a result of NinjaTraders inability to correctly inform of the status of its Kinetick feed.

You will see from the logs that it appears to have conflicting logic:-
5/21/2013 2:08:26 AM|1|2|Kinetick Realtime: Primary connection=ConnectionLost, Price feed=ConnectionLost
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|3|4|Kinetick.Adapter.L1Worker: System.Net.Sockets.SocketException: A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond 66.112.156.112:60003
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.DoConnect(EndPoint endPointSnapshot, SocketAddress socketAddress)
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Connect(EndPoint remoteEP)
at System.Net.Sockets.Socket.Connect(IPAddress address, Int32 port)
at NinjaTrader.Dtn.DtnSocket.Connect()
at NinjaTrader.Dtn.Adapter3.L1Worker()
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|1|2|Kinetick Realtime: Primary connection=Connected, Price feed=Connected
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|1|64|Instrument '$CADJPY' Account='#####' Avg price=98.58 Quantity=1.8M Market position=Long
5/21/2013 2:09:13 AM|3|128|Strategy 'Strat65/1c4ada55ae7b4208a237c413695a6fa0' lost price connection but will keep running.

Has anyone else been experiencing the same issues?
The problem with asking this question is that most people wouldn't KNOW they have this issue because they are relying on NinjaTrader to inform/report them and handle the exceptions correctly. Additionally, if they weren't programmers and didn't have EXTERNAL Post Trade Analysis tools in place to monitor the performance of NinjaTrader most of these issues would not come to their attention.

pls feel free to pm me or preferably post to the open forum.

Regards

PS NinjaTrader IS started on a Daily basis and the feed connections refreshed as recommended.

I keep running into the same issue over and over again on several systems distributed across several ISPs. They are VPS systems - which are running on top of fat and supported connectivity pipes. This has been a recurring headache since I signed up with Kinetick over a year ago. I have been using two separate Kinetick accounts and it's happening on both.

Last time I complained about this I was told to send them my log and trace files and they looked into it. The response was that they couldn't find anything on their end and that I should check with my hosting provider. Did that and they came back to me saying that they didn't see any data outages in the time periods provided. So both parties claim they are not to blame and I have no means as to narrow the problem down.

The fact that this keeps happening is very disconcerting. I am using my Kinetick credentials to connect via the IQFeed connector and it seems to be a bit more stable but not perfect. I was wondering if you had a chance to resolve this to your satisfaction. Definitely want to give Kinetick the benefit of the doubt but the fact that it happens across completely different systems with different Kinetick accounts and different Internet providers strongly suggests it's a Kinetick problem.

Kinetick - I could be wrong of course - please consider the above and suggest a possible solution. Otherwise I will have to find a different data provider.

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi molecool,

Thank you for writing in.

To further review this issue I will want to review the log and trace diagnostic files, and please send those to support [at] kinetick [dot] com.

Additionally, this will enable me to review your Kinetick Account ID and credentials for information there, as well.

I look forward to assisting.

[molecool]

Hi molecool,

Thank you for writing in.

To further review this issue I will want to review the log and trace diagnostic files, and please send those to support [at] kinetick [dot] com.

Additionally, this will enable me to review your Kinetick Account ID and credentials for information there, as well.

I look forward to assisting.

Ryan - I appreciate your response but we've been through this already. I can certainly send you my log and trace files but last time you guys responded back two days later and told me it wasn't on your end. So did the hosting company and I'm stuck in the middle just wasting time (and it's expensive when your trade goes South and you're not being closed out).

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi molecool,

To confirm that this item represents a particular issue I will need to review those files, and I anticipate once I confirm the contents of those files I can provide further clarification shortly after that.

When sending those files please reference this thread, and ATTN Ryan O. In that case they should come directly to me, and I can quickly begin reviewing this issue.

[molecool]

Ryan - I appreciate your response but we've been through this already. I can certainly send you my log and trace files but last time you guys responded back two days later and told me it wasn't on your end. So did the hosting company and I'm stuck in the middle just wasting time (and it's expensive when your trade goes South and you're not being closed out).

I just sent you the log/trace files - the outage occurred here:

6/25/2013 8:34:19 AM Default Connection to NinjaTrader historical market data server lost: A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond

That is EDT by the way.

[molecool]

I just sent you the log/trace files - the outage occurred here:

6/25/2013 8:34:19 AM Default Connection to NinjaTrader historical market data server lost: A connection attempt failed because the connected party did not properly respond after a period of time, or established connection failed because connected host has failed to respond

That is EDT by the way.

I didn't get this message until after I sent it out so it's not directly addressed to you. Please go take a look at your support inbox.

[molecool]

I may want to add that I'm having a similar problem as the original poster in that Kinetick claims it's connected and all my strategies and indicators are running. But the data feed does not update - it's supposedly live but nothing's moving. Very disconcerting because it's almost impossible to know one has been disconnected and that the market is moving until much later.

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi molecool,

I did receive the log file, but to review can you please also attach the trace file.
The trace file is located in the the My Documents > NinjaTrader 7 > trace folder.

As it relates to that last item it is for this reason that I will need the trace file in addition to the log file.

[molecool]

Hi molecool,

I did receive the log file, but to review can you please also attach the trace file.
The trace file is located in the the My Documents > NinjaTrader 7 > trace folder.

As it relates to that last item it is for this reason that I will need the trace file in addition to the log file.

I actually attached both files - sending it to you again right now.

[virtuose]

I experienced the exact same issue today. My primary data feed is Kinetick and secondary connection is IB. Kinetick disconnected for about one minute with a similar error message to the first post (i.e.: Kinetick.Adapter.L1Worker (...)). The IB connection remained stable which tells me that the issue didn't come from the ISP. This situation had a negative impact on the automated strategies that were running.

[molecool]

I experienced the exact same issue today. My primary data feed is Kinetick and secondary connection is IB. Kinetick disconnected for about one minute with a similar error message to the first post (i.e.: Kinetick.Adapter.L1Worker (...)). The IB connection remained stable which tells me that the issue didn't come from the ISP. This situation had a negative impact on the automated strategies that were running.

How long was the connection down? Did your strategy shut itself down?

[virtuose]

The connection was down for 1 minute and the strategy did not terminate itself.

[NinjaTrader_RyanO]

Hi virtuose,

Thank you for writing in, and I would be glad to assist further.

If you have not already done so please send an email to support[at]kinetick[dot]com so that I can follow-up and work with you regarding this issue for your installation.