Platforms and Methodologies

[tedpenner]

I am an I.T. guy by trade but unfortunately NOT a coder.

TOS - I've been somewhat successful automating some moving average strategies in Thinkorswim where you can queue up 8 trades at-a-time to happen automatically. What I like about the TOS platform is that it has a builder and a host of easy to identify indicators so that when you want to trade one in an automated fashion, all you have to do is use the builder. This sort of thing works for example "when aroon BullishSignal crosses above xyz, do this". The problem is that 8 trades is by no means an automated platform.

TRADELINK - This was an interesting find but the builder builds closed-source code and it is less than intuitive for me.

METATRADER - Since I trade forex, metatrader made sense for a while but I did not find a builder and there were few indicators, so I moved on.

TRADESTATION - Tradestation seems to be the de-facto standard in the industry but most hate the "easy language" which also has no builder and the indicators are more difficult to understand.

Synopsis: Ok so being an I.T. guy I'm thinking about NinjaTrader because I think it uses C# or something close. Anything like that seems like the smartest bet. I heard NinjaTrader had a "builder" so that I either don't have to write code directly, or can ease into the process.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Should I try NinjaTrader if what I want is automated trading with the ability to 'ease into' coding using a builder first?

[koganam]

... Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Should I try NinjaTrader if what I want is automated trading with the ability to 'ease into' coding using a builder first?

In the current state of the art for coding trading systems, my answer would have to be an unequivocal: "yes".

Careful though. The Strategy Wizard is pretty rudimentary. Nonetheless, it is a great aid in generating code when you are stuck, or if you know what you want to do, but just need to get the syntax right. Just do not expect to be able to code elaborate systems, using only the Wizard. I use it all the time to generate a quick shell, so that I can test the code, if I need to write some code to answer a customer inquiry.

[tedpenner]

In the current state of the art for coding trading systems, my answer would have to be an unequivocal: "yes".

Careful though. The Strategy Wizard is pretty rudimentary. Nonetheless, it is a great aid in generating code when you are stuck, or if you know what you want to do, but just need to get the syntax right. Just do not expect to be able to code elaborate systems, using only the Wizard. I use it all the time to generate a quick shell, so that I can test the code, if I need to write some code to answer a customer inquiry.

Outstanding! It sounds like NT might be exactly what I am needing currently!

How does it compare to Tradestation?.

What happens if I build something in NT that I like? Let's use a SMA cross as an example. Hypothetical Example: I've coded a strategy that trades the EUR/USD 30 second chart with a SMA cross. The SMA cross criteria are to go long and short, several times daily, and getting out all-together during periods of settlement and when the market is closed.

Can this be coded using the NT builder and a SIM account?

If it becomes profitable in a SIM account, what is the cheapest way to trade it for real?

I have the following brokers: TOS (good), IB (bal may be too low to trade), Tradestation (good).

P.S. Thank you again for such a prompt reply.

[koganam]

Outstanding! It sounds like NT might be exactly what I am needing currently!

How does it compare to Tradestation?.

What happens if I build something in NT that I like? Let's use a SMA cross as an example. Hypothetical Example: I've coded a strategy that trades the EUR/USD 30 second chart with a SMA cross. The SMA cross criteria are to go long and short, several times daily, and getting out all-together during periods of settlement and when the market is closed.

Can this be coded using the NT builder and a SIM account? - Yes. The default example that ships with NT is exactly what you describe. You can code something this simple entirely using the Strategy Wizard.

If it becomes profitable in a SIM account, what is the cheapest way to trade it for real? - Get a supported broker and datafeed. Get an NT license. NT is free to develop code and SIM trade. To trade with real money, you need to get a license from NT. Details are on the NT site, but no doubt, the support staff can give you more explicit directions.

I have the following brokers: TOS (good), IB (bal may be too low to trade), Tradestation (good).

P.S. Thank you again for such a prompt reply.

Answers in blue.

[sledge]

If you have the time, you might check out blood hound. They're logic builder is way more powerful. Free to back test for up to 2 months of data.. so if you like it and it works for you, and you want to go live, you'll have to buy it.

http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/forum/showthread.php?t=48775

I am an I.T. guy by trade but unfortunately NOT a coder.

TOS - I've been somewhat successful automating some moving average strategies in Thinkorswim where you can queue up 8 trades at-a-time to happen automatically. What I like about the TOS platform is that it has a builder and a host of easy to identify indicators so that when you want to trade one in an automated fashion, all you have to do is use the builder. This sort of thing works for example "when aroon BullishSignal crosses above xyz, do this". The problem is that 8 trades is by no means an automated platform.

TRADELINK - This was an interesting find but the builder builds closed-source code and it is less than intuitive for me.

METATRADER - Since I trade forex, metatrader made sense for a while but I did not find a builder and there were few indicators, so I moved on.

TRADESTATION - Tradestation seems to be the de-facto standard in the industry but most hate the "easy language" which also has no builder and the indicators are more difficult to understand.

Synopsis: Ok so being an I.T. guy I'm thinking about NinjaTrader because I think it uses C# or something close. Anything like that seems like the smartest bet. I heard NinjaTrader had a "builder" so that I either don't have to write code directly, or can ease into the process.

Your thoughts are greatly appreciated. Should I try NinjaTrader if what I want is automated trading with the ability to 'ease into' coding using a builder first?

[tedpenner]

Thanks for both suggestions. Bloodhound looks fantastic. Is it closed source? Will it write Tradestation code or TOS code or just for NT?

Also, with respect to NT sim trading, metatrader comes to mind. They provided a kind of 'test data' that wasn't real but acted like it was real. It wasn't real market data. It was perhaps just a way to give you a moving target (I guess?) outside of market hours? Does NT offer anything similar? What would be the point anyway of such a thing?

[sledge]

Thanks for both suggestions. Bloodhound looks fantastic. Is it closed source? Will it write Tradestation code or TOS code or just for NT?

Also, with respect to NT sim trading, metatrader comes to mind. They provided a kind of 'test data' that wasn't real but acted like it was real. It wasn't real market data. Does NT offer anything similar? What would be the point anyway of such a thing?

Just for NT.

Closed source? I'm not sure what it produces as an output file that interfaces with NT. Might be encrypted.

[koganam]

Thanks for both suggestions. Bloodhound looks fantastic. Is it closed source? Will it write Tradestation code or TOS code or just for NT?

Also, with respect to NT sim trading, metatrader comes to mind. They provided a kind of 'test data' that wasn't real but acted like it was real. It wasn't real market data. It was perhaps just a way to give you a moving target (I guess?) outside of market hours? Does NT offer anything similar? What would be the point anyway of such a thing?

Yes, there is a simulated datafeed in NT. You can also record and playback the realtime market data.

The simulated datafeed in NT is conrtrollable, so you can test your indicator in different market conditions as you want. Essentially the simulated datafeed has a trend-slider which you use to set the strength of the trend so you can test in trending or ranging markets as the case may be.

[tedpenner]

Simulator Complete Data

Yes, there is a simulated datafeed in NT. You can also record and playback the realtime market data.

The simulated datafeed in NT is conrtrollable, so you can test your indicator in different market conditions as you want. Essentially the simulated datafeed has a trend-slider which you use to set the strength of the trend so you can test in trending or ranging markets as the case may be.

Great! I got a little further. Since I am testing I can't leave the chart up all the time, how do I get the data to fill in so that it will always be there?

[koganam]

Great! I got a little further. Since I am testing I can't leave the chart up all the time, how do I get the data to fill in so that it will always be there?

You cannot. The simulated datafeed is generated only when you connect to it. It has no historicity, and it would be pointless for it to have any. It is generated purely for test purposes to create a specific market condition. There is no point in storing fake data.

[tedpenner]

You cannot. The simulated datafeed is generated only when you connect to it. It has no historicity, and it would be pointless for it to have any. It is generated purely for test purposes to create a specific market condition. There is no point in storing fake data.

Wow, that's different than metatrader, tradestation, tos, or interactive brokers. You are telling me that every time I want to build a new strategy, I have to buy data or wait for the data to fill in. Every time I pull up the program? I can't leave the computer running just so the chart is there when I need to see it? What am I missing?

[koganam]

Wow, that's different than metatrader, tradestation, tos, or interactive brokers. You are telling me that every time I want to build a new strategy, I have to buy data or wait for the data to fill in. Every time I pull up the program? I can't leave the computer running just so the chart is there when I need to see it? What am I missing?

No. That is not what I am saying. None of those platforms has a simulated datafeed, internally generated for creating specific market conditions. All the data from the simulated data feed is fake, and designed for only one purpose. The simulated datafeed is precisely that and no more: a datafeed.

It has pretty much nothing to do with the SIM trading engine, which is the equivalent of TOS Paper Money. The SIM engine uses realtime data, if you have a feed, to do trades in real time. Those trades are stored and can be analyzed, as they are executed as real trades, albeit with unreal money.

They are separate concepts: do not be confused by the spurious similarity in names.

NT stores real market data if you ask it to. That data is always available for backtesting and optimization, and Market Replay.

[tedpenner]

No. That is not what I am saying. None of those platforms has a simulated datafeed, internally generated for creating specific market conditions. All the data from the simulated data feed is fake, and designed for only one purpose. The simulated datafeed is precisely that and no more: a datafeed.

It has pretty much nothing to do with the SIM trading engine, which is the equivalent of TOS Paper Money. The SIM engine uses realtime data, if you have a feed, to do trades in real time. Those trades are stored and can be analyzed, as they are executed as real trades, albeit with unreal money.

They are separate concepts: do not be confused by the spurious similarity in names.

NT stores real market data if you ask it to. That data is always available for backtesting and optimization, and Market Replay.

How do I turn that on so that "data is always available"?

[koganam]

How do I turn that on so that "data is always available"?

The picture tells the story. Needless to say, you must have a live datafeed. The simulated datafeed is not live: it is generated.