Sync Account Position

[Steve R]

I am just recently getting into ATM strategies, NT Strategies etc after mainly using indicators to alert me, where I then just manually enter orders and so I am running into a few issues that I am looking for clarification about with regards to ATM strategies.

I've read a bit of the documentation on the issues and I'd like to double-check and expand on it just to be sure.

To keep it simple, I have an ATM that works fine intra-day etc. When I fire it back up the next business day I does not 'see' the previous positions it placed on prior to this day. It operates as 'flat' even though it made trades (still on) from the day before.

I assume I should set on the Strategy Tab "immediately submit live working historical orders - sync account position == false" ??

Along with that, I see as an asterisk about this in the help files:

* A previously generated order is considered to match an active strategy order when the order action, order type, quantity, limit price, and stop price are exactly identical.

So the question is three fold. First of all, is the above setting correct for what I am after?, secondly, how/can I? remove the the stop price (cancel it) without interrupting the ATM strategy so that I can still, ....thirdly, maintain the correct sync of account position with the ATM strategy, day to day as a swing trade.

This last part might be muddy so let me take it one step further. We are forced to place a stop price on all ATM Strategies. I don't want one for this strategy so I set it to a loss of like 98% and then immediately cancel that order (manually). I am using the ATM on a chart (not the DOM) and have open another chart so I can see the orders and position. I cancel the stop order on this second chart.

I am unsure if that causes problems with the syncing or if I have other issues on top of that.

Hopefully I have given you all the info you need here.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for your post.

To clarify your inquiry please advise if you are speaking solely of ATM Strategies or if you are using AtmStrategyCreate() within your automated NinjaScript strategy.

I look forward to your response.

[Steve R]

I am using AtmStrategyCreate() in a NinjaScript Strategy to call a pre-existing ATM Strategy.

IE:

AtmStrategyCreate(OrderAction.Buy, OrderType.Market,0,0, TimeInForce.Day, GetAtmStrategyUniqueId(),"myATMStrategy", GetAtmStrategyUniqueId());

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for your response.

The settings you have set should only be used when you are sure your Account Position is the way you want it to be in relation to the Strategy Position prior to strategy start.

You will not be able to cancel the Stop order of an ATM strategy without cancelling the corresponding Profit Target.

If you wish to sync the account to the strategy position then you can use Sync Account Position = True to accomplish this. As long as you do not take additional positions outside of your strategy (manually for example) then the account position should match the strategy position.

For information on these settings and syncing your account position please visit the following link: http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/h..._positions.htm

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[Steve R]

Hi Patrick.

So where do I find this: "Sync Account Position = True" setting? Is it the (same) Strategy Tab on the NS Strategy? vs anything within the ATM strategy settings?

Why are you telling me to sync the account when from what I read, the account is how I want it so i should be using sync = false? I don't see why sync=true is what i want since i need the NS strategy to see that I am in a position and to NOT operate as if I am not. The NS strategy will operate differently if I am in a position vs if I am 'flat', so it needs to know.

For information on these settings and syncing your account position please visit the following link: http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/h..._positions.htm

That link is no more clear the 19th time though than it was the 1st which is why I am here asking specific questions as it pertains to my situation.

Part of the issue is I do not really see the relationship between what the NS Script 'thinks' vs the ATM Strategy and how it operates. Unfortunately I have two issues here, not one, and I do not know which takes precedence over which and at what point one affects the other.

You will not be able to cancel the Stop order of an ATM strategy without cancelling the corresponding Profit Target.

OK. but when everything fires up again the next day and the ATM see's my positions?? will it start back up with 'new' orders based on the ATM strategy? IE will it invoke for instance a trail-stop once it see XX% profit as per ATM Strategy, or have I lef it stranded permanently by cancelling the stop-loss order?

What I am asking here is will it (ATM strategy) start back up where it left off? At this point it is all ATM strategy driven, btw. I'm not interfering with the ATM at all using the NS Script.

[Steve R]

Evidently we're not getting anywhere with this one.

Let's break it down to the component parts of the Ham sandwich.

Just forget anything about having a NS Strategy then, and focus solely on a simple ATM strategy. I figure once I get the nuances of the ATM Strategy I'll likely be able to figure out where the other issue(s) are.

So let me be specific here again so we can get specific answers only and skip the filler.

I'm going to also use a trade example too so we can keep on the same page. It'll have a branch or two but I'll denote them as we go.

So again, we're ONLY using an ATM Strategy from this point on.

I go long at $100 for 100 shares of XYZ using myATMStrategy. It's going to be a multi-month swing trade, long only, no stops if I can get it that way.

It forces me to set a stop (which I don't want, but I put it at a 98% loss IE $2.00 here). I have no target, but have an auto-trail set at 1% gain after an unrealized gain of 8%

Branch#1: If I cancel the stop-loss order - what happens to the strategy, today and tomorrow when I fire the machines back up?

I clearly want the strategy to work for the auto-trail on subsequent days. Will it do so after cancelling the stop-loss?
----------------

Branch #2: Assume I do NOT cancel the stop-loss. Do I need to make any special settings to ensure the ATM will work on subsequent days?

Branch#3: Assuming I do not cancel the stop-loss, and we gap-up tomorrow > 8% ($110) i assume the auto-trail will place a stop @ 1% above my average cost?

Branch#4: Let's assume @ 110 and the +1% stop in place from branch #3, I now buy 100 more shares and now have 200 shares at an average of $105. Will the ATM strategy cancel the auto-trail on the 100 shares since we are now UNDER the +8% threshold for the whole position since I have averaged-up?

Enough for now. Oh yes, and I will likely NOT be buying this security outside of this ATM Strategy. Let's assume this is so for the exercise.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for the additional information.

Branch#1: If I cancel the stop-loss order - what happens to the strategy, today and tomorrow when I fire the machines back up?

I clearly want the strategy to work for the auto-trail on subsequent days. Will it do so after cancelling the stop-loss?
----------------

If you cancel the Stop Loss the strategy is stopped/cancelled. Auto Trail is quite literally Trailing Stop, cancel the Stop Loss and the Auto Trail has nothing to move.

Branch #2: Assume I do NOT cancel the stop-loss. Do I need to make any special settings to ensure the ATM will work on subsequent days?

The ATM strategy will work going forward from each day.

Branch#3: Assuming I do not cancel the stop-loss, and we gap-up tomorrow > 8% ($110) i assume the auto-trail will place a stop @ 1% above my average cost?

Correct, if the Profit Trigger of the Auto Trail is reached the Stop Loss is adjusted to the new Stop Loss level.

Branch#4: Let's assume @ 110 and the +1% stop in place from branch #3, I now buy 100 more shares and now have 200 shares at an average of $105. Will the ATM strategy cancel the auto-trail on the 100 shares since we are now UNDER the +8% threshold for the whole position since I have averaged-up?

No, the Stop Loss will not be moved away form the current price or cancelled.

So where do I find this: "Sync Account Position = True" setting? Is it the (same) Strategy Tab on the NS Strategy? vs anything within the ATM strategy settings?

This setting is changed when enabling the strategy on your chart or the Strategies tab of the NinjaTrader Control Center.

Why are you telling me to sync the account when from what I read, the account is how I want it so i should be using sync = false?

Let's say you shut down NinjaTrader overnight and come back the next day to re-enable your strategy. The strategy is going to run through the historical data and calculate the position and orders that would have been placed, if that means the ATM Strategy is still active it will re-submit that ATM Strategy, if not it will close the position.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[Steve R]

Holy smokes, I think you hit it out of the park! lol. Thanks Man, you've nailed all and more.

One small question with respect to "branch 4"

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve R
Branch#4: Let's assume @ 110 and the +1% stop in place from branch #3, I now buy 100 more shares and now have 200 shares at an average of $105. Will the ATM strategy cancel the auto-trail on the 100 shares since we are now UNDER the +8% threshold for the whole position since I have averaged-up?

No, the Stop Loss will not be moved away form the current price or cancelled.

So I will have the auto-trail on 100 shares @ $100 and then the 2nd 100 shares bought @ $110 will have to wait until it's own, separate, auto-trail to trigger?

Do I have that correct?

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for your response.

Are you scaling into the previous ATM Strategy position or creating a new ATM strategy for this new quantity of 100?

[Steve R]

scaling it in with the same *active*?? ATM strategy

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for your response.

In either case the Auto Trail will have to wait for the Profit Trigger before the Stop Loss is moved. If you scale in the Average Entry Price is going to change so the Profit Trigger for the Stop Loss is going to be at a new price and once that price is reached both Stop Losses will be moved to the new Auto Trail level.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

[Steve R]

Hello Steve R,

Thank you for your response.

In either case the Auto Trail will have to wait for the Profit Trigger before the Stop Loss is moved. If you scale in the Average Entry Price is going to change so the Profit Trigger for the Stop Loss is going to be at a new price and once that price is reached both Stop Losses will be moved to the new Auto Trail level.

Please let me know if I may be of further assistance.

thanks again my man. You've explained it perfectly for me.