Machine IDs are far from ideal for vendors

[VolatyTrading]

As a vendor, I spent a significant amount of time updating customers' machine IDs that change mostly due to periodic Windows updates. This is far from ideal since customers often have changes in the machine ID, which require a manual intervention from the vendor as there is no automated API for this. I'd like to suggest a different approach.

Instead of having vendors use a machine-related ID to authenticate customers, NT8 could produce a 128-bit or 256-bit hash of the user license and allow vendors to use that instead. Since the user license does not change, neither will its hash. Since it is the output of a one-way hash function, the user license is protected. NinjaTrader should also already have safety measures in place to prevent a user from running the same license in more than one machine, so vendors would inherit that same feature.

This seems to be a better approach than having vendors manually updating their customers' machine IDs every time they change. This becomes a real problem as the number of customer increases.

[NinjaTrader_ChrisL]

Hi, thanks for posting. I agree that it's not the most scalable solution. I will suggest the idea to our development team for future consideration.

Kind regards,

-ChrisL

[VolatyTrading]

NinjaTrader_ChrisL thanks, in fact any per-installation unique ID (a Vendor ID), should work.

This would make the life of vendors much simpler, as we wouldn't have to update clients' machine IDs whenever they update Windows or hardware.

[EB Worx]

As another vendor, I can confirm this
The whole licensing system is a joke, completely unusable for any vendor which has a considerable number of customers
It requires so much work from us vendors that many of us decided to implement our own licensing server and abandon Ninja's
It's not working for us vendors and it's not working for our customers either.
In the past, I received so many questions and complaints from our customers who just don't understand why their indicator suddenly stopped working
Every day we had to reply to dozens of emails from customers who's machine id had changed.
We always have to explain that this is because NinjaTrader decided to change the machine id (without informing us vendors or updating the license)
I've contacted Ninjatrader numerous times and given them suggestions on how to improve it.
However. as with 99% of all the requests people make on this forum Ninjatrader just assigns some number to your request and you'll never hear from it again
It's a shame that Ninjatrader does not take its vendors seriously and its customers seriously on this issue
In the end, we also ended up developing & implementing our own licensing system since we could not handle all the licensing support requests of customers anymore about machine id's being changed and because we want happy customers, not angry customers because the licensing system is a mess
Erwin
TradeDevils indicators

https://tradedevils-indicators.com/

[NinjaTrader_ChrisL]

Hi, two votes have been added to the feature request ID:
SFT-5289

Added features can be tracked from the release notes page here:

https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/NT%20HelpGuide%20English.html?release_notes.htm

Kind regards,
-ChrisL

[sidlercom80]

Hi Chris, please add my vote too thx.

[Heart]

Add my vote too please...

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

sidlercom80 Heart,

I've added your votes to SFT-5289.

Please note, we receive many requests and cannot reasonably implement all requested features or changes. Interest is tracked internally and if enough interest is tracked, it would be weighed against how feasible it would be to make those changes to consider implementing, so we cannot offer an ETA or promise of fulfillment.

When new features are implemented, they will be listed in the Release Notes page of the Help Guide. The ID number may be different than the internal feature request tracking ID, but the description of the feature will let you know if that feature has been implemented.

Release Notes - https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ease_notes.htm

[VolatyTrading]

In addition to the problems above, I have recently realized that NinjaTrader machine IDs are not unique. I have a couple of clients, living in different parts of the world, that provided the same machine ID. Most likely, these are virtual machines that have the same hardware/software and therefore result in the same machine ID.

There are probably multiple other customers that never have to pay for products because he/she happens to have the same machine ID as another paying customer. It is not fair to us vendors and not fair to the paying customers.

As vendors, how are we supposed to handle this scenario?

[bltdavid]

I've added your votes to SFT-5289.

+1

Please add my vote.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Volaty Trading,

Thank you for your notes here on Vendor Licensing.

Did you know as a NinjaTrader Ecosystem vendor that you have a dedicated vendor support team available at vendorsupport[at]ninjatrader[dot]com? I recommend reaching out directly to our vendor support team on matters such as these.

In addition to the problems above, I have recently realized that NinjaTrader machine IDs are not unique. I have a couple of clients, living in different parts of the world, that provided the same machine ID. Most likely, these are virtual machines that have the same hardware/software and therefore result in the same machine ID.

There are probably multiple other customers that never have to pay for products because he/she happens to have the same machine ID as another paying customer. It is not fair to us vendors and not fair to the paying customers.

As vendors, how are we supposed to handle this scenario?

There is a solution in place for this through the NinjaTrader Control Center --> Help --> 3rd Party Licensing window. This window allows a user to input the Vendor Name (as it appears in Vendor Licensing for the vendor) and then a unique user id. The user then generates a new Machine ID that includes this unique user id at the end, this is then used by the vendor to grant access to the product in the Vendor Licensing window.

If you need more details on this, please reach out to us directly at vendorsupport[at]ninjatrader[dot]com.

[VolatyTrading]

NinjaTrader_PatrickH thanks for the reply!

A couple of follow-up questions:

1. Will the 3rd parte licensing machine ID change when the underlying machine ID changes due to hardware/software updates? If not, this is a better alternative than the machine ID by itself as vendors don't have to update customers machine IDs anymore for that reason.


2. Trying to understand more for the case where clients are actually trying to reuse the same machine ID. If two different users running in identical VMs with the same machine ID provide the same user ID, then both 3rd party licensing machine IDs will also be the same, right? If so, this is not enough to stop customers from overusing the same license.

[eDanny]

NinjaTrader_PatrickH thanks for the reply!

A couple of follow-up questions:

1. Will the 3rd parte licensing machine ID change when the underlying machine ID changes due to hardware/software updates? If not, this is a better alternative than the machine ID by itself as vendors don't have to update customers machine IDs anymore for that reason.


2. Trying to understand more for the case where clients are actually trying to reuse the same machine ID. If two different users running in identical VMs with the same machine ID provide the same user ID, then both 3rd party licensing machine IDs will also be the same, right? If so, this is not enough to stop customers from overusing the same license.

Machine ID's are duplicated in all models of computers with the same hardware and bios. Very common that people buy the same model computer. The machine ID can change with hardware changes and even with Windows updates. Remember, an indicator license ID created by the 3rd party licensing module are unique and cannot normally be shared.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello Volaty Trading,

Thank you for your follow up to help clarify a couple of items.

1. Will the 3rd parte licensing machine ID change when the underlying machine ID changes due to hardware/software updates? If not, this is a better alternative than the machine ID by itself as vendors don't have to update customers machine IDs anymore for that reason.

Yes, the Machine ID even when using the 3rd Party Licensing window may change if the BIOS or hardware is changed.

2. Trying to understand more for the case where clients are actually trying to reuse the same machine ID. If two different users running in identical VMs with the same machine ID provide the same user ID, then both 3rd party licensing machine IDs will also be the same, right? If so, this is not enough to stop customers from overusing the same license.

No, while the Machine ID portion will be the same, the users will create separate "user ids" that are added to the end of the Machine ID to uniquely identify their instance of NinjaTrader.

We do not want to go to far in depth on the public forums regarding licensing. If you wish to continue your inquiry on Vendor Licensing and Machine IDs, please reach out to me at vendorsupport[at]ninjatrader[dot]com.

Have a lovely and safe holiday season!

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello eDanny,

Thank you for your assistance here.

Always happy to see our NinjaTrader Ecosystem vendors lending a helping hand!

Machine ID's are duplicated in all models of computers with the same hardware and bios. Very common that people buy the same model computer. The machine ID can change with hardware changes and even with Windows updates. Remember, an indicator license ID created by the 3rd party licensing module are unique and cannot normally be shared.