Rollover dates and offsets

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

I have added these considerations to a feature request, and linked this forum ticket for the development team to review. The tracking number is SFT-1694.


NinjaTrader 7 calculates the rollover based on the close price of daily bars the day before rollover.
NinjaTrader 8 calculates the rollover based on the close price of minute bars the day before rollover.

Thanks again for your contributions.

[Harry]

Hello Ryan,

I think the way NinjaTrader behaves today is unacceptable. It is not possible to create a correctly merge backadjusted contract.

Your way of your dealing with problems is not at all satisfactory. Instead of suggesting a solution of the problem you call it a feature request.

A feature request will probably not be dealt with before 2020. It basically means that you are fending off problems, by not fixing them but simply ignoring them.

Is there any trader in your team, who understands what we are talking about?

Do you understand that NinjaTrader makes it impossible to use proper data as a base for trading decisions?


Suggestion:

To be more productive, there are two ways to fix the problem:


Option 1 (to be implemented ASAP):

Allow the user to select whether NinjaTrader downloads offsets and overrides the data that was manually entered by the user.

Option 2 (feature request):

Use a standard method for calculating offsets - as you did with NinjaTrader 7 - and do not supply fantasy offsets that cannot be used.

As long as I can change it, I do not mind all your false contract months, false rollover dates, false offsets, false holiday calendars & false trading hours. It is my responsiibility to adapt the settings. However, currently you are preventing me from entering proper values and I cannot tell my customers how to fix it.

Please look at the chart again. Your offset is 22.5. It is completely off the correct value which should lie between 24 and 26.5 (settlement 25.5). All indicator values such as VWAP, standard deviation bands, weekly pivots and monthly pivots are now 3 points off, just because you are not willing to fix the problem.

I am great fan of NinjaTrader, but false data to such extent is totally unacceptable.

[aslane]

NT should be listening on this one, your offsets are generally wrong on most rolls. At a minimum you should be using the settlement prices (which should also be the daily bar closes).

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

Thank you all for your feedback.

I'm sorry to hear of your frustration regarding these items, and we can understand the impact that this has on your overall trading method.

We truly appreciate the feedback, as we are always trying to improve NinjaTrader and user submitted ideas and feature requests are responsible for many of the new features and changes we add to the platform. All feature requests are reviewed by the development team for future builds, however it can take some time to design, test, and the implement them to the platform.

The workarounds we discussed earlier are the only options I can supply for the time being unfortunately. Until recently this has not been a requested change in NT8 since it was released, so the development team has not had the opportunity to review it for the current iteration of the platform.

We'll leave this thread open for users to leave their comments/suggestions, as well as add their votes towards this Feature Request as we monitor this suggestion.

If you have any other suggestions or concerns, please let us know so we can help to the best of our ability.

[bltdavid]

I vote with Harry.

When Harry goes to such great lengths to document and explain the issues he is having with NinjaTrader (version 7 or 8), I have learned to sit up and diligently study his comments.

I consider Harry to be one of the world's foremost experts (outside of NinjaTrader headquarters) on all things NinjaTrader.

Since I am very fond of his commercial products, I cannot upgrade to NT8 until this issue is fixed.

Please ask all of engineering to study these requests carefully.

[Harry]

False offsets

Here are further examples for bad rollover offsets (with Kinetick data).

Heating oil rollover to August 2018 contract (rollover day June 15)

The correct offset would have been -0.0031.
The offset preset in Ninjatrader 8 is -0,1800 (58 times larger)

Heating oil rollover to July 2018 contract (rollover day May 17)

The correct offset would have been 0.0062

The offset preset in NinjaTrader is + 0.0800 (13 times larger)

Probably someone has confused dollars and cents or maybe used another instrument. The offsets for HO are all false. I feel the way offsets are maintained in the database is ridiculous. No one who trades any money can use that nonsense data.

I am really fond of NinjaTrader, but I have absolutely no understanding for the very bad maintenance of trading hours and rollover offsets.

Please find attached a mergebackadjusted (!) chart. The gap is mainly due to the false offset ....

[nkhoi]

offset is too troublesome. When a new offset get added does it mean that all prices get adjusted until beginning of time? I select do not merge and stop worrying about offset every 3 month.

[Harry]

offset is too troublesome. When a new offset get added does it mean that all prices get adjusted until beginning of time? I select do not merge and stop worrying about offset every 3 month.

If you do not use volume indicators and if you never run backtests that approach may work.

If you wish to use volume indicators, and if you do want to run backtests over longer periods, then you need to use backadjusted contracts.

[poseidon_sthlm]

I vote with Harry!

But I don't agree at all on the statment that:

As long as I can change it, I do not mind all your false contract months, false rollover dates, false offsets, false holiday calendars & false trading hours.

In my opinion Ninjatrader has to step up imediately and offer correct and useful data for these trading support functions. This negligence of data maintenance in NT8 has been going on for over two years!!

/poseidon_sthlm

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

Thanks for the note.

We are looking into this discrepancy on the HO contract on our end.

I will be sure to post as soon as I hear more on this issue.

Thanks for your patience-

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

Thank you all for your patience on this matter.

The issue with the offset values in NinjaTrader should be resolved by restarting NinjaTrader, and reloading the historical data to your charts.

Please let us know if you have any further questions.

[tony98]

On NT V7 my future contracts list(contract months and expiration dates) ends 12-18. I have just download the latest version 39. Has the rollover database been updated? How can I get an update? Thanks.
Tony

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

A reset of your instrument database should resolve this. To reset your instruments please follow the steps below.

• Disconnect from your data feed: NinjaTrader Control Center> File> Disconnect> Select your data feed.
• Reset your Instruments: NinjaTrader Control Center> Tools> Options> Data tab> Reset Instruments>OK.
• Restart NinjaTrader> Connect (NinjaTrader Control Center> File> Connect> Select your connection.

[habibalex]

I would like to add my vote for this feature request.

In addition, when I set the offset date to a different date ninja will also magically change it back to it's preferred roll date, esp when downloading a new version of ninjatrader.

I would like to roll my contracts on the day that volume rolls. For ES futures this generally occurs on the Friday after the roll date. In addition, the mergedbackadjusted amount should be based on the settlement price provided by the CME. These are the options for a 'professional' platform.

SierraChart gives you the option to roll on volume. As a developer/trader, it's shameful ninja still does this incorrectly as I've mentioned this issue YEARS ago. We're literally explaining how to do it properly.

https://www.cmegroup.com/trading/equ...rvaluefaq.html => see lead month / second month.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-7/platform-technical-support/88063-nt7-offset-roll?t=86499

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello Habibalex,

I have added a vote on your behalf to this ongoing feature request.

Thanks for your feedback.