Point and Figure charts error

[itrader46]

Hello

I have seen there have been people who flagged some issues with the PnF charts before, so here what I've noticed on my NT8 (last 18.1 version):

As you can see from the attachments, the PnF chart is showing the session closes at different times each day, instead of the 21:00 (London time) as the FGBL end of session.

Also, the low levels for the 18th and 24th June 2019 on the PnF chart are different to what a 15 minute chart shows.

More still, the close on the 21st is shown as 172.16, while the minute chart shows it at 172.06.

To add insult to injury, the 15 minute 21st June chart shows a downtrend from 172.16 high / 17:00 time bar down to 172.06 session close / 21:00 time bar, with a low of 172.01 between 17:00 and 21:00, while the PnF chart shows a positive last bar from 172.01 to 172.16. That means that the PnF chart plotted an actual downtrend as an uptrend bar which, unless I am making a big error of understanding here, is just mind boggling. A similar thing occurs between the 17th session end and 18th session start.

I have marked for comparison the high and low on the 20th which are correctly plotted on both the PnF and minute charts.

Basically, it looks like every time there is an open gap, the PnF charts can't handle it properly, and also the session ends are messed up as well which, so far into NT8 development, it beggars belief.

Finally, I don't understand why Ninja does not plot the wicks, opens and closes on the PnF (and Renko) charts.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

To accurately attempt to reproduce what you're reporting, I'll need some additional information:

• What version of NinjaTrader 8 are you using? Please provide the entire version number. This can be found under Help -> About (Example: 8.0.?.?)
• Who are you connected to? This is displayed in green on lower left corner of the Control Center window.
• What time zone is NinjaTrader set to? You can check in the Control Center > Tools > Options

[itrader46]

The first line of my message shows the NT8 version: 8.0.18.1
I am connected to NT Continuum, on UTC+00 (London) time zone

[itrader46]

BTW, reloading the historical data does nothing to fix this

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

This is expected.

PnF bars will not plot the next bar until the reversal has been completed. It can start receiving that reversal, which does not contribute to the current bar, before the bar is closed. The bar will continue to advance per the settings and the time stamp will update on it until that reversal has completed and the new bar has formed. So with your settings that session close time stamp would be the time stamp of the last tick received until it started reversing. Here is a short video demonstrating this concept:

https://ninjatrader-brandon.tinytake.com/tt/MzYwNTI3NF8xMDkwMzU2OQ

PnF bars do not conform to "Break at EOD" settings and continue to plot the next bar with data from both sessions. Since NinjaTrader time stamps based on bar close, it doesn't know what time the bar had opened, so it is assigning the session close to the prior bar, although data prior to close is included in the next bar.

How would you prefer NinjaTrader to behave?

[itrader46]

Really Patrick?

That is to be expected... You mean that: "To add insult to injury, the 15 minute 21st June chart shows a downtrend from 172.16 high / 17:00 time bar down to 172.06 session close / 21:00 time bar, with a low of 172.01 between 17:00 and 21:00, while the PnF chart shows a positive last bar from 172.01 to 172.16. That means that the PnF chart plotted an actual downtrend as an uptrend bar which, unless I am making a big error of understanding here, is just mind boggling. A similar thing occurs between the 17th session end and 18th session start."?!?

Where did that last up bar come from in an actual downtrend? Did you really read that? Is that really to be expected, or you are taking the mick? Do you guys receive special training to deny any issues at all costs?

More even, PnF bars don't end at the end of session? How come every other bar type ends at the end of session, but not the PnF? That is just ridiculous! So in case the ES opens with a gap of 20 points then goes straight down, I will have an up PnF bar starting from a price ES never traded?

Please look at the attachments, then go in front of a mirror and try to say with a straight face: "That is to be expected".

Every bar type on every platform I ever used or heard of ends the bars at session break, so I think that should be the case with the PnF bars on NT8 as well, with time stamp when the bar closes, not when it starts.

Also, the lack of wicks, opens and closes on the PnF candlesticks looks to me just like lazy programming.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Thanks for the feedback.

In the screenshot below, you can see the uptrend in the PnF chart ends at 17:01 as you expect and the next PnF bar is a down trend, as you expect:



I understand your concern since the PnF bar advances its time stamp until it reverses and continues through sessions resulting in this case of the PnF bar being time stamped for the next day. I have submitted your concerns to the Development Team for consideration of changes to the way PnF charts function within NinjaTrader. Specifically, the current expected behavior of bars not continuing through sessions.

I'll also submit feature requests for wicks and open/close markers on the PnF bars. The internal tracking number for your feature request is SFT-4088. Please reference this internal tracking number if you ever have questions regarding this feature request.

When a feature request is implemented, you'll find it in the release notes:

http://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/en-us/?release_notes.htm

[itrader46]

For God's sake man! What's gonna take for you to address this?!?

"...the 15 minute 21st June chart shows a downtrend from 172.16 high / 17:00 time bar down to 172.06 session close / 21:00 time bar, with a low of 172.01 between 17:00 and 21:00, while the PnF chart shows a positive last bar from 172.01 to 172.16. That means that the PnF chart plotted an actual downtrend as an uptrend bar"

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

I addressed this in post #7 in my screenshot. I would not expect PnF bars to match the trends of time based bars because they have completely different criteria for determining when an up or down trend is occurring. Please also review my video from post #5 to see how a PnF builds in comparison to a time-based bar (they do not match exactly).

[itrader46]

In my #6 post I asked where is the difference between 19th open high of 171.57 as on the 15min chart and 171.55 on the PnF chart. Did you or your video in post #5 explain that?

I'll try to make it easier for you, then. Please look at this attachment and explain to me why the period from 17:00 to 21:00 on the 15min chart is transferred to the next PnF session, where did the up gap from 21st to 24th session go (despite being a PnF gap down at the start of 19th session) and why the low of 24th is completely changed in the PnF session, coz none of your posts address that, just deny there is any issue with NT8.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

After review from the Development Team, I first would like to correct what was said earlier and confirm PnF bars do close at session break. The confusion here is that although it closes the bar at session close, it continues to advance the bar forward (advances the timestamp) until the next sessions PnF bar plots. This is the change development will look into/consider.

Looking at the open of the 19th there is the green PnF bar which seems to be the closing bar for the 18th since the session close is under it. It is actually the next red bar that is the end of session bar. However, it is timestamped 8am the 19th since it advances forward as mentioned. As price gaps down and the next PnF bar plots, that is the first PnF bar for the session. Two rows of down bars would only be possible when a new session starts.

• I see on the 19th for the 15min chart an open of 172.62 and high of 172.65
• I see the PnF bar timestamped for the 19th at 8am has a high of 172.75 and low of 172.70. However, once again, this is actually the closing bar for the prior session.
• The actual opening PnF bar for the 19th is timestamped 8:05am with a high of 172.62 and low of 172.58. Since the start of the session opened at 172.62 and the first PnF bar is a down bar, the first O is plotted at 172.62 and the Os continue to plot down from there.
• Same situation going into the 24th, the PnF bar timestamped 8am for the 24th is actually the session close PnF bar for the 21st where the timestamp update moved it to the 24th.
• The actually first PnF bar on the 24th is timestamped 8:17am. This bar has a low of 172.16 which is the same as the open for the 24th on the 15 min chart. Since the first PnF bar is an up bar the first X is plotted at 172.16 and moves up from there.

[itrader46]

So this whole issue is due to PnF bars not following the normal session breaks, which render them virtually useless and that needs to be addressed urgently, as for the life me, I don't get the reasoning for it in the first place!

Can you pass to the development team the request about the Renko bars wicks as well, please? Pretty much everybody that wants to use Renko charts has to use custom bars, coz NT8 Renko have no wicks, so the tops and bottoms will miss some ticks, which will, in turn, return errors on indicators like Pivots and Prior Day levels. What I am after is a clean Renko chart, with wicks and without overlapping of the bars' opens and closes, basically just like the current Renko, but with wicks..

Also, can you tell me why the Renko bars don't work with tick replay, as I personally could really use that?

Finally, if it's not too much to ask, can the Order Flow Cumulative Delta indicator be altered to include the option to display accumulation over sessions?

These changes will really be helpful, as we wouldn't then need to use custom indicators that can sometimes mess things up.

Thank you

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I've already submitted a feature request for your wick items in post #7:

Thanks for the feedback.
I'll also submit feature requests for wicks and open/close markers on the PnF bars. I will follow up with an internal tracking number for your reference as soon as it is created.
.

Renko's modify the open and use RemoveLastBar in the BarsType to do so. RemoveLastBar functionality isn't compatible with Tick Replay. Here is a quote from the help guide on this topic:

Note: The system bar types "Line Break" and "Renko" cannot be used with Tick Replay and as a result, the Tick Replay option will be disabled when configured with those bar types. There may be other 3rd party bar types which may also disable Tick Replay by design. If you are a developer, please see the property IsRemoveLastBarSupported for more information.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ick_replay.htm

I'll submit another feature request for your Cumulative Delta multi-session desire. The internal tracking number for your feature request is SFT-3684. Please reference this internal tracking number if you ever have questions regarding this feature request.

When a feature request is implemented, you'll find it in the release notes:

http://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/en-us/?release_notes.htm