NT8 Freezing During High Volume Periods

[guw75]

Hi Patrick, so far it seems to be stable today.
ChartLagTime V3 indicate a delay of 5.5 sec. But I do not whether its true. Its constantly moving around this 5,5sec value since opening of OVN futures session.

with Ninjascript Utilization Monitor: How long does it have to run? for 30 seconds or 5 minuts or over the entire session?

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

When I use the ChartLagTimeV3 on my end, I never receive a delay of more than 50ms.

5 minutes or so would be a useful amount of time to gather relevant information from the NinjaScript Utilization Monitor. Respond to my last email with your results so we may continue the conversation there.

[guw75]

Hi Patrick, I have sent you an email with ChartLagTime results.

[hurleydood]

guw75 , I am still waiting on your reply with your NinjaScript Utilization Monitor results from this morning. I suspect we may be able to isolate major contributors to your symptoms with this information. Charting leans heavily on your GPU, so a powerful multicore CPU can only assist tangentially with charting items.

hurleydood , we test NinjaTrader internally extensively. What we cannot do is test every possible hardware configuration along with the effectively infinite ways NinjaTrader can be configured. To add to this, we have no direct control over how custom add-ons are programmed.

Most people affected by this rendering delay in the last week or so are using custom add-ons or have NinjaTrader configured in a way which would be prone to these types of symptoms. Can you reproduce any symptoms if you load NinjaTrader with only built-in tools?

I don't think its a hardware CPU/GPU issue. 99% people use the default settings NT8 has provided and still get lag when there is a lot of activity or high network traffic. It's not a CPU/GPU issue because all CPU/GPU usage stay low during the lag and continue to stay low until the charts catch up. Also remember NT8 limits screen updates to 4 frames per second which is ample time to render one frame, keep in mind in 3D video games people are getting above 120 fps lol. It's just the data is getting lagged behind by mutithreading and deadlocks. Also keep in mind that the OnRender method is still reacting to user input without lag. Sure there could be some indicator doing heavy calculations set to calculate OnEachTick that could be shown on NinjaScript Utilization Monitor that could be an issue.On laggy days I like to switch to NT7 where the issue is non-existent.

[pjsmith]

Just to add - I would concur with Hurleydodd. I have carefully monitored GPU usage during these times over a couple different sets of hardware, given prior comments by NT staff to my queries (and the performance docs), and GPU never even breaks a sweat. Does not even come close.

To add to what I've said before elsewhere. Of note - It's not sheer volume of data that seems to cause this (by observation), it's when liquidity dries up and the instrument becomes more volatile, so, LOT's of price movement, skipping levels, etc. Pick something like NQ for testing. If we are churning through 200 contracts per level on the DOM, it's not too bad. When we are skipping levels and trading with 1's and 2's on the bid/offer with price flicking all over the place, NT clearly struggles. I sympathise with the developers (a little), because reproducing these conditions outside of real-time is hard and they do not occur on demand. In fact, they are not the norm (though lately it's been a ride!). The huge issue is, that these times, for some of us, is where great potential lies, and the platform clearly fails at the most important time, which can also be very costly. However, my sympathy fades because I've resolved issues in commercial code just as complicated as NT, by simply running the code in real time whilst profiling it's performance (via commercial profilers). Once the event has occurred, it's generally _very_ clear where the issue lies, so I am really confused as to why this has gone on for years (literally) without being resolved , unless it is an inherent structural flaw in the way NT operates, which cannot be resolved without a complete design change. That threading model comes to mind...

I'm pretty sure some of the extreme issues reported here will be due to indicators causing lag, but for some others, who've already whittled it down to the bare essentials, using exceptionally efficient code for their volume profiles., etc., it still falters. It's fine shipping a product in a bare format that performs, but most users are going to add a bare minimum to that bare chart. Volume profile, maybe some averages, a little orderflow, etc. If NT cannot perform once that is done, it really is not going to meet the needs of the vast majority of users (IMO).

[wona12]

very common. I and many others have had the same issues. Still exists a bit for me, but what I found helped a lot, is reducing the number of bars on the screen. It seems a little counter intuitive. Although I have charts with tick series for volume profile etc, it's really only the low tick type charts that mainly cause the lag. Reduce number of bars on any short term charts with tick series to a minimum. Indicators can cause issues, but on the whole, NT cannot cope in most cases in volatility liek recently with just a few charts for the same instrument open, and a few volume profiles. I recently thew a new, amazingly powerful PC at it too, but with minimal inpact. NT I believe runs all the same instrument through the same thread, so if you have mutiple charts for same symbol, that will slow you down too. Other thing I found helped. I put some of my long term charts in 'tabs'. When a tab is hidden, many of the indicators can pause and save resources whilst you are not actually looking at that chart.

Hope it helps, but I think you will not get a 100% solution. Unless you are running bare chart only and nothing else, I have never seen NT cope fully my side (and I know a lot of others that experience same).

Was hoping to get some input on the following issue. During the last few days my NT8 has been pretty much frozen/lagging during the first half of the day due to the high volatility and volumes.
I have had this issue before and was hoping for some ideas on the best way to deal with this problem or is it just a limitation in the architecture design of NT8. The freezing is due to screen
rendering where many times the charts are lagging 15 - 30 minutes behind the market. The DOM is always accurate reflecting correct prices, it is only the charts that lag

[Kaldo]

Today the same problem, again. Totally lagging and Historical Servers are not available anymore.
I tried to restart NT but now I have gaps in my charts.
Too much volatility and the feed / NT seems to crash.

[pjsmith]

Kaldo - Quick fix for the gaps is probably right click, reload all historical data, but don;t try it when it's lagging bad - You'll only freeze NT up for longer...

[pjsmith]

Have to say, today is a good example for devs to be watching this. Right now, as nq approaches the gap, I'm getting up to 8 seconds lag tops, maybe 5, then dropping back to 350ms in short periods of volatility

[Lancer]

On market reactions to China news, instead of just lagging, NT actually froze for a while, with no windows updating, and the DOMs lost all price levels beyond the inside market. Have not seen that before. Per Task Manger, ample PC resources available during news event (CPU 50% (35% NT), Memory 60%, GPU 8% NT). No Tick charts.

Over 30 min after news, lag remaining:

[EB Worx]

I also noticed a HUGE lag today a couple of times when trying to open a MKT order
After pressing BUY MKT it took 3-5 sec before the order was opened..
As soon as i noticed it.. I closed all my charts & tabs , market analyzer and even deleted all workspaces.
Then i created a new workspace with just 1 chart and the 5 most essential indicators i use
So in the end i had just 1 chart open.. nothing more

Then about 10mins later AGAIN i got 3-5 sec delay before a MKT order was opened

My workspace
1 chart.. ninzarenko 6/3 (tick replay is off, days loaded is 30)

containing 5 indicators:
1) priceline -> is ontick
2&3) 2x solarwind (ninza.co) is onbarclose
4) barstatus (ninza.co) is ontick
5) amaopeningrange (lizardindicators) is on pricechange

my pc:
Windows 10 Home 64 bit
intel core i7 8th-generation , 6x cores running at 2.21GHz pc
-16GB memory
- 512 GB SSD
There's nothing else running on this pc besides ninjatrader 8, since its my trading only-pc.. it does not even contain a virus scanner!

my connection :
Internet speed is around 200-400Mbs

I uploaded the logs to ninja.. so pls fix this asap, seems multiple people get this issue and all i hear/read from ninja so far is that we have to many indicators or charts open ???
Note that I experienced these lags today with just 1 chart with only 5 indicators on it..
I didn't spend $1000+ for a NT8 lifetime license to get 3-5 secs delay on opening orders when markets gets a bit volatile.
That is just crazy imo ...

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

CRITICAL — If your inquiry involves live orders, please always reach out to your broker's Orders Desk immediately to confirm and manage your live orders and positions.

If your trades are with NinjaTrader Brokerage, you can contact NinjaTrader Brokerage Order Desk here:

• Phone: 312.423.2234
• Email: orders[AT]NinjaTrader[DOT]com

It looks like your simplified workspace still contained several custom elements. Are you able to reproduce these symptoms now if you have a chart with no custom add-ons?

"I uploaded the logs to ninja" - does this mean you've contacted us via email? If so, what is the ticket number you received? Please send me your Workspace, log, and trace files so that I may look into what occurred.

• You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Email Support
• Expand 'Other files' and enable 'Workspace files and UI settings'.
• Please reference the following ticket number in the body of the email: 2232467 ATTN PatrickG

[EB Worx]

Are you able to reproduce these symptoms now if you have a chart with no custom add-ons?

No.. volatility is back to normal atm, and i need these custom indicators to trade..
But on the other hand... Its not just these specific indicators, since lots of other people report issues with other indicators and other charts??

I'm a full-time professional c# developer myself. What i would do if my customers where experiencing big performance problems is:

- 1) tell your developers to setup real charts. Charts we customers are using and with the indicators we customers are using..
We're all uploading our workspaces so you should be able to recreate those pretty easy.. ?

- 2) supply ninja with (fake) extreme volatile market data (i'm sure the devs can do that pretty easy)
- 3) use performance tools (e.g. dotTrace) to profile the performance of ninja under the extreme volatile load
- 4) drill down in the reports generated in #3) and you'll get a good idea whats causing the lag and performance issues

Please send me your Workspace, log, and trace files so that I may look into what occurred

will do right away

[Lancer]

Is it realistic to expect that workspaces should have only standard elements and no custom indicator add-ons? I'm quite sure that chart lag can be induced using standard elements alone, with substantial PC resources remaining unused, and the same with custom add-ons. It seems that custom add-ons are quick to blame, but there are a lot of pro coders among NT users, and a lot of custom indicator scripts written for users by pros, with quality every bit as good as the standard indicators.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Lancer , we do not expect users to only have default NinjaTrader items in use. This is one of the best features of NinjaTrader - the ability to customize your NinjaTrader with the custom tools you desire. With that said, some considerations need to be made as many items are out of our direct control once custom add-ons are introduced.

The following symptoms post installation could indicate an Add-On is installed causing negative impact:

• Windows become slow or unresponsive to user interaction
• Market data becomes unusually slow to load or update
• Standard features fail to work as designed
• Other scripts fail to work as designed (custom scripts that work on their own may conflict with each other)
• Lost connections from market data providers
• Error messages are generated at various times
• The entire application shuts down abruptly and without warning

If you run into any of the above symptoms post installation of a 3rd Party Add-Ons please try uninstalling the 3rd Party Add-Ons to see if the problem goes away and contact the 3rd party developer for support.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/en-us/using_3rd_party_add-ons.htm

The above is general information from our help guide. It's our goal to provide specific support for each user once you've contacted us on the forums or via email. I would like to clarify that this is not 'blaming' the third party add-on necessarily. The reason we start first with add-ons is because it is an unknown variable in the equation of your symptom. If we can make a definitive statement like "NinjaTrader performs normally when I remove indicator X', that allows us to troubleshoot very specifically. For example, contacting that developer to see what, if anything, can be done to optimize their add-on for high volatility scenarios, or perhaps even combinations of settings that were unanticipated.

Most of the symptoms discussed in this thread have been introduced by the very high volatility in the market in the last few days. This means that the workspace behaves normally when market volatility is under a certain threshold, but start to exhibit performance symptoms when over a certain threshold. There are effectively infinite unique ways to configure your NinjaTrader workspace, so we need to gather specific information to learn how to best mitigate the symptoms you're experiencing based on your configuration.

I encourage you to reach out to me direct at PlatformSupport[AT]NinjaTrader[DOT]com so I can learn more about your NinjaTrader configuration and symptoms.

If you have an example workspace which induces chart rendering delay using only built-in NinjaTrader items, please attach that to your reply so we may analyze this on our end. These are items we can directly control and the more examples we have the more the Development Team will have use-cases to work from to potentially optimize NinjaTrader for high volatility periods in the market.