Lagging Ninjatrader Chart by 8-10 minutes following FMOC

[aligator]

Sad, Sad, Sad. While Ninja ES chart lagging by 10 min, TOS chart is right on point.

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello Alligator,

Thank you for your post.


So we can further diagnose your system, please start NinjaTrader in Safe Mode.

Safe Mode will prevent NinjaTrader from:

• Loading workspaces.
• Connecting on start-up.
• Loading custom assemblies.
• Getting instrument updates from the server.

To enable safe mode, please use the following steps:

• Exit NinjaTrader.
• Hold the CONTROL key and double click the NinjaTrader icon.
• Keep the CONTROL key held down until you see the Control Center.
• You can verify you are in safe mode by going to Help -> About.

Please let me know if you're still seeing this delay in a chart when opened in Safe Mode.

[aligator]

Hello Alligator,

Thank you for your post.


So we can further diagnose your system, please start NinjaTrader in Safe Mode.

Safe Mode will prevent NinjaTrader from:

• Loading workspaces.
• Connecting on start-up.
• Loading custom assemblies.
• Getting instrument updates from the server.

To enable safe mode, please use the following steps:

• Exit NinjaTrader.
• Hold the CONTROL key and double click the NinjaTrader icon.
• Keep the CONTROL key held down until you see the Control Center.
• You can verify you are in safe mode by going to Help -> About.

Please let me know if you're still seeing this delay in a chart when opened in Safe Mode.

Thank you Heath. This is not a new issue with NT when there is major FOMC news and high volatility in the market.

Everything is fine now that the volatility is gone.

Thanks for response.

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello Aligator,

Thank you for your reply.

The core NinjaTrader application should have no issue responding to market volatility. However, based on the complexity of your workspace, especially with a high volume of third party indicators attached, the strain on your machine can grow exponentially.

For your reference, I've included a link to some performance tips to keep in mind to increase the responsiveness of the platform during highly volatile times.

• http://ninjatrader.com/support/helpG...ance_tips2.htm

If you need any additional assistance, feel free to contact the Platform Support team directly at PlatformSupport(at)NinjaTrader(dot)com.

[James108]

Heath many of us are getting real tired of the same old song regarding lagging charts. I use a basic workspace with three range bars charts a 4, 8 and 15T. with a selection of moving averages and envelopes i have gone through the exercise before and now I have been using the performance monitor. The performance monitor shows that by far the biggest resource use is the OHLC bars, Today even 30 mins after the announcement my 4R chart was lagging terribly even chart trader would screw up when entering a market order. Sometimes it would only be able to enter the order with no stops or targets. When it does this it throws errors about the stop being above or below the market, i believe these error boxes need to be closed before the order can be canceled to protract against having no stop

I would like to see a spec of what kind of workspace you say works fine in all market conditions. In order to be useful it must includes some small tick or range bards charts.


I believe if you took a vote you would find that a lot of people have this issue and that they think they are being snowed by Ninja trader that will not admit there is an issue.

Does anybody at NT actually try to trade during these high volatility periods to test just how capable NT8 is? Of could this would need to be done with a reasonable amount of indicators on the Range and or tick charts.

Look forward to your response

James 108

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello James101,

Thank you for your response.

I certainly understand your frustration with chart lag, let me explain what happens in the platform and what items we recommend to resolve this.

Whenever lagging charts are reported, we request a users connection information as well as the instrument and timeframe they're trying to view so we may accurately attempt to replicate the problem using the same data provider. This is our first go to test and will let us know if there is an issue with the data provider or servers in general, so we certainly do connect to try to reproduce this issue. In addition many of the technicians here will leave a workspace running on their platform and connected to a live data feed so we're aware of any issues early.

The next thing we like to check is whats going on with their platform internally, so we usually will request Log and Trace files so we can see if there are any errors or connections losses being recorded by the platform or anything else that may indicate a specific issue.

If we're unable to determine the cause from the Log and Trace files, we like to ensure the client receiving data real time when they're running just the NinjaTrader Platform itself without any third party items or workspaces, as these can exponentially increase the amount of calculations that have to be done before new information can be plotted on a chart. To test this, we always encourage users to start the platform in Safe Mode.

Safe Mode will prevent NinjaTrader from:

• Loading workspaces.
• Connecting on start-up.
• Loading custom assemblies.
• Getting instrument updates from the server.

To enable safe mode, please use the following steps:

• Exit NinjaTrader.
• Hold the CONTROL key and double click the NinjaTrader icon.
• Keep the CONTROL key held down until you see the Control Center.
• You can verify you are in safe mode by going to Help -> About.

Once you're in Safe Mode you would connect to your data feed provider and open a chart. Depending on the cause of this lag you would see one of two things:

1. The data is still out of sync and lagging behind.
2. The data is now charting correctly and there is no lag.

In the First instance it's likely related to one of the following causes:

• A users computer time is out of sync with the correct time. In instances where the PC isn't running NinjaTrader in safe mode, this is the most common and we'll provide instruction on how to sync your computer properly.
• Connection issues
  • We have methods to test the stability of a users internet connection to our servers and we'll usually request a remote session to assist users in this case, so that we can verify.
  • If we're unable to resolve this problem we'll give the users steps to take to resolve it with their ISP, or it's related to a local outage that we cannot control.
• PC Performance and Capability.
  • This would indicate that a users PC is under-powered and not able to support the core platform or their specific configuration due to:
    • Actual system requirements not being met (rare, but would require an upgrade of a users hardware to be compatible).
    • Other programs utilizing too many resources and not leaving enough for NinjaTrader to function properly. (somewhat common)
    • An actual issue with their PC outside of the Platform. When this occurs we recommend a user have their PC examined by a certified PC technician to resolve these issues as we're unable to assist with general desktop support.

The Second instance, where data charts correctly in Safe Mode, indicates that the issue is not with NinjaTrader itself, but related to some third party items that have been installed.

In this instance we advise users take the following steps to force NinjaTrader to start without their saved workspaces.

• Shut down NinjaTrader
• Launch NinjaTrader in Safe Mode
• Close any open Workspaces without saving them (saving over them will remove any custom indicators.) by going to the workspaces Menu in the Control Center, hovering over the workspaces you have open (with a green or grey icon next to them) and clicking the close option that appears.
• Create a new workspace and name it what you wish then click SAVE to save that workspace.
• Close and reopen NinjaTrader normally.

This will open the platform with a new clean workspace only.

If there are no issues on this new workspace, we would recommend opening the previous workspace by going to File--> Workspaces--> Open workspace.

If this reintroduces issues, We would suggest rebuilding your workspace, adding 1 indicator at a time. Keeping track of what indicators you add back in so that the user can narrow down what indicator is causing the issue if the issue returns.

We also suggest making a backup of your workspace so we can restore a backup if the issue returns. I have provided a link below to our Help Guide that goes over backing up and restoring.

• https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...up_archive.htm

I have personally never had an instance where the response to the client was, too bad, or snowing a client. When issues like this occur they occur for a reason and I've never seen the process above fail to determine the cause of chart lag. We have thorough processes to determine the cause of these issues and proven steps that work to solve them.

That said, generally the vast majority of these items are cause by a workspace that is too complex for a users machine capability, or related to a third party item being corrupt, out of date, or improperly coded.

1. If a user is hitting a block with their machine capabilities, we have a performance tips section of the help guide to help remove high impact items and streamline their workspace into something that works for them. I've provided links to those below:
   • NinjaTrader 7: http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/h...ance_tips2.htm
   • NinjaTrader 8: http://ninjatrader.com/support/helpG...ance_tips2.htm
2. If the user is running into an issue with a specific third party item, we always recommend the user remove that item and reach out to the developer of that item to get an updated or corrected version from them.

In all of these instances, we continue to work with the client and will frequently remote connect to their machine directly until we're able to determine a cause.

If you're ever having issues with the platform or chart lag you can always reach out to us through the platform directly by going to Help > Email Support in the Control Center, or by emailing us directly at PlatformSupport(at)NinjaTrader(dot)com

Please feel free to email the Platform Support team directly if you have any other questions.

[eDanny]

Other platforms have lag issues also. I used to trade stocks with the RealTick platform, now called Eze EMS, and high volume would always cause lag with just a bunch of bare 5 min. charts. The faster the connection (greater bandwidth) the better. I'm not saying this to excuse NinjaTrader, just for information purposes.

[aligator]

Hello James101,


Whenever lagging charts are reported, we request a users connection information as well as the instrument and timeframe they're trying to view so we may accurately attempt to replicate the problem using the same data provider.
......

Hi Heath,

My system is top notch with high bandwidth, Rithmic live data, and optimized frequently. I have gone through your processes at least twice in the past 10 years. It simply does not fix anything because the lagging only happens (at least for me) during major news causing high volatility. Any diagnostics outside the 5-15 minutes volatility zone will absolutely show nothing because lagging is simply not reproducible outside the news time.

My Suggestion: Setup a system with a reasonable and typical traders' needs ( a couple of work spaces, several charts and indicators, running strategies, etc.). Then, place some trades with targets and stops and make real time observations during important news (Wednesday's EIP Petrolum report, FOMC news, etc.). Then experience the frustration and hopefully find a real solution.

Just a note; While you might see this lagging with some other platforms as eDanny noted, you would rarely, if any, see this behavior with solid platforms like, TOS, CQG, etc.

Cheers!

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello Aligator,

Thank you for your reply.

As mentioned, If a user is hitting a block with their machine capabilities, we have a performance tips section of the help guide to help remove high impact items and streamline their workspace into something that works for them and can respond in time with high volatility in the market. I've provided links to those below:

• NinjaTrader 7: http://www.ninjatrader.com/support/h...ance_tips2.htm
• NinjaTrader 8: http://ninjatrader.com/support/helpG...ance_tips2.htm

I personally do run the NinjaTrader 8 platform with 2 charts and multiple NinjaTrader included indicators during my regular hours and noticed no lag during Wednesdays announcements, despite the high volatility, using an active Kinetick connection.

Also in regards to connection, the amount of data you are sending and receiving is small but the amount of requests is very frequent, in the instance of receiving market data, having a stable internet connection is going to be much more important than having a high volume connection (for instance Gigabit internet). In the interest of having a stable connection you want to ensure you're using an ethernet cable and "hard wired" into the internet whenever possible.

If you're using a Wi-Fi connection, you're not going to have a stable connection due to the nature of Wi-Fi, it's effectively a radio, and is prone to micro-disconnections from your network and interference due to other signals.

You mention using a setup with a reasonable traders needs, however the needs of a trader are as varied as the trader. Every person I connect to uses a different workspace, different charts, different indicators. What works for you is going to be much different from what works for another trader.

In turn, performant settings for the platform is going to vary on each individual PC for an innumerable amount of reasons, including the PC specs, other running background processes, complexity of workspace used, impact of the custom items added, etc.

There's not a set amount of impact each custom item will have. Obviously an order flow footprint is gonna be a lot more intensive than an SMA, The platform cant 'anticipate' a users needs and tune performance based on that, as the needs of a user are going to be as varied as the users themselves.

I would recommend following the steps I have outlined on your platform for next Wednesdays announcement using only those settings if you would like to recreate this test. You may also want to open the windows task manager to see the impact on your specific system.

To see what (if any) third party NinjaScript items may be contributing to the symptoms, NinjaScript Utilization Monitor:

• Control Center > New > NinjaScript Output
• Right-click within the NinjaScript output window > Select 'NinjaScript Utilization Monitor...
• This window will begin to populate with NinjaScript items in order of time spent processing.

If you're ever having issues with the platform or chart lag you can always reach out to us through the platform directly by going to Help > Email Support in the Control Center, or by emailing us directly at PlatformSupport(at)NinjaTrader(dot)com

Please feel free to email the Platform Support team directly if you have any other questions.

[aligator]

Hello Aligator,

Thanks Heath,

I guess I should have explained what I meant by my system is optimized for a typical trader (Ethernet, stability, and most everything on the list.)
The point is that a real active trader can not be expected to operate with an "optimized system" in near Safe Mode state with 1 simple chart all the time so that chart lagging the market is reduced during major news (anticipated or not) volatility.

Do we need a built-in feature or an indicator to generate "Error: desired system conditions for placing trades do not exist?" It is an idea, but not really.

Cheers!

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello Aligator,

Thank you for your reply.

If you're experiencing lag issues we'd be happy to connect with you to help determine what items might be causing this symptom in your specific workspace. If you would like assistance, please reach out to us through the platform directly by going to Help > Email Support in the Control Center, or by emailing us directly at PlatformSupport(at)NinjaTrader(dot)com

Please feel free to email the Platform Support team directly if you have any other questions.

[James108]

Thanks for your replies Heath

May I suggest you do a tutorial on using the utilization manager. As I mentioned when I view it,it typically shows the OHLC as the biggest resource user. I haven't any idea how to interrupt what I am seeing as it looks like all of my indicators are behaving and not hogging resources but yet the chart lags and Chart trader is crippled.

Maybe show some example of a system working correctly during FOMC and an example of one that isn't.

The data feed i use is NT Continuum, are there ever issues with this feed during high volatility? Do you know if a issue has occured? Do you ever report to users that this feed experienced issue today at XX time? It would be nice to know how often this data feed is the cause of chart lagging.

By the way does using Kinitick as the data feed and just using NT Continuum as real time data for training help this situation at all?


Regarding the PC internal clock i have am app that correct the time at boot up and every 15 mins. As a matter of interest how many msec does the PC internal clock need to be off by to cause an issue?

By the way the latest release of Windows added a power usage feature to task manager that seem more useful than CPU percentage.

I still feel unsatisfied with this situation, I will continue to test to see if I can pinpoint the problem.

The frustrating thing is that most days during market open everything is fine.

Cheers

James 108

[Lancer]

James108, Try this script to monitor/measure chart lag: ChartLagTimeV3.zip
It doesn't tell you what is causing the lag, but you will know when it is happening.

[NinjaTrader_Heath]

Hello James108,

Thank you for the reply

It would be difficult to do a tutorial that would cover reading the NinjaScript utilization Monitor that would be general enough to work for most people as the information displayed and what it means will vary based on each users configuration.

But i will run that by the production team to see if it would be possible to create that, we would have to be careful that it wouldn't fall into the realm of trading advice.

In your case the OHLC bars could be being rewritten or redrawn by another indicator which is causing it to top the list, I've seen this in the instance of some volume indicators that print to a bar (the bar type is redrawn as the volume is updated). I've also seen this occur with indicators that draw objects, frequently the drawing object is above that indicator in the list since it's doing the heavy lifting.

In general what i look for in the NinjaScript Utilization Monitor is as follows:

• First I recommend closing any workspaces that might be open in the background as this can result in false readings for charts or indicators that you can see.
• One that is done; Are there any items climbing into the thousands within the first 5 seconds of opening a window? This indicates a fairly resource intensive calculation being performed by or with that object
• If drawing object or other indicators are taking those top spaces, do any of the other items in the list rely on or frequently redraw those items?
• If several indicators from a single chart are frequently topping the list, does this issue disappear if you close that chart and reopen the Utilization Monitor?
  • This indicate the error is with that chart and it's settings and helps me target the issue more precisely.

As a note, if a user has a particularly complex workspace I would recommend saving a copy of it and close some of the workspace charts and windows to eliminate complexity and allow the user to focus on specific items. It then becomes a process of elimination.

I'm not aware of any issues with Continuum or Kinetick in the past few weeks, when an issue is discovered that information is spread among our support technicians so we can relay that information to users we may work with but i'm not sure of any outgoing announcement as those would be up to the data provider themselves.

Regarding the PC clock, I'm not aware of a specific amount of discrepancy between the platform and servers that would result in this issue, but it is our first go to when Safe Mode doesn't appear to resolve the issue.

You can use the steps below to change/check your Time Zone and sync the PC clock (in Windows 10):

• Shutdown NinjaTrader
• Right-click the clock in the lower right corner of your desktop
• Select Adjust date/time
• For Windows 10 click 'Additional date, time, & regional settings' -> then click 'Set the time and date'
• Select the 'Internet Time' tab at the top
• Set the server to time.nist.gov and then click Update.
• If the message that appears says successful your PC clock should now be updated.
• If not, select a different server from the Server: drop-down and try again (repeat until one of the servers is successful)

After updating the PC clock, please restart NinjaTrader, then right-click the chart and select Reload All Historical Data.

I hope this helps, if you find any additional or specific items you would like support with, please reach out to us through the platform directly by going to Help > Email Support in the Control Center, or by emailing us directly at PlatformSupport(at)NinjaTrader(dot)com

[hurleydood]

Even though NT 7 is single-threaded and doesn't take advantage of the GPU it has never lagged on me even with the chart update interval set to 0.1 seconds with 24 charts and 6 DOM's, and it barely uses any CPU.