Alerts in Market Analyzer remain active after exiting Market Analyzer

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
Further to my Thread here
https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...ssage-in-error
on an erroneous error message warning all Alerts will be removed if continue to Exit Market Analyzer (which is not what Help says will happen), I now observe that on Exit of Marrket Analyzer, although the error message is redundant because it does not remove the Alerts irrespective of whether you choose to continue to Exit MA or not (i.e. answer Yes or No), it simply exits Market Analyser and does not remove the Alerts, the Alerts remain Enabled after exiting Market Analyzer.

This is not the behaviour I would expect. If the Alerts are created and operate on Conditions set in Market Analyzer, once Market Analyser has been exited I would no longer expect them to be active. In the same way that if I created an Alert on a Chart - if I closed said chart I would not expect the Alert to remain active.

Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thanks for your post.

The Alerts removed message should be interpreted that the alerts will be removed from your active running alerts, not from the window itself as the window would already be saved in the workspace with alerts configured.

When I test having an Alert enabled in the Market Analyzer, I receive the message that Alerts will be removed. When I click yes, the Market Analyzer is closed and the Alerts are no longer active. When I click No, the Alerts are still active as the window is still open. Since I last saved my workspace with Alerts applied to the Market Analyzer, they come back when I close and re-open my workspace.

Demo - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1UQg...w?usp=drivesdk

Development has recognized the issue where the the Alerts warning popup comes after the workspace is already closed. To alleviate confusion, this message will no longer be presented when the workspace is closed. Alerts would be removed from being active, but this does not mean that the alerts are removed from the window as the window would be saved in the workspace with the alerts configured. These changes will be applied in the next release of NinjaTrader that includes these changes. The ticket ID associated with the change is NTEIGHT-14266.

Please let me know if you have any additional questions.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Jim and thanks.

Unfortunately it is a total 'buggers muddle'.

The error message we are seeing is the message which is prompted when using Alerts on Charts and there is a whole (at times somewhat heated) thread on people's frustrations at the time of introduction, need for templates, spending hours creating Alerts only to find there is no way of saving them etc.

I'm not here to troll, and your video is helpful.
But your scenario is not 'the problem', not my problem, I suspect not the most common use case but happy to be wrong, and there is a further problem

Re: the wording in the message 'should be interpreted as' - let's be clear, the whole thing is a mess, ill thought through etc - that is why the wording is quite simply incorrect.for what is taking place in the Market Analyzer situation. In Charts, it does remove the Alert# as it says in the message, hence all the history about templates.

I have Market Analyzer.in its own workspace. So if you recreate your example but rather than close Market Analyzer with the red cross, save your untitled Workspace as Market Analyzer, then close that Workspace - not red cross Market analyzer you will get the same Alerts message and it doesn't matter what you do Yes or No (because yes, you are correct, the settings are saved to the Workspace - so if you save/close with Alerts enabled, it will open with alerts enabled, if you save close with Alerts disabled, it will open with alerts disabled. But if you close the workspace in which market analyzer resides and is open, you still get the 'remove alerts message, but it doesn't mnatter how you answer.

However - right now I have my Market Analyser Workspace CLOSED, only my charts workspace open (which have no alerts) and my alerts are firing. I've repeated. open close workspace.. How can that possibly be correct - I don't have Market Analyzer open in any workspace, don't have any alerts other than in market analyzer, yet my alerts are firing.

Perhaps you can mess around with the gist of what I've written above and see what I'm talking about - the context is when you have Market Analyzer in a workspace and opena nd close the workspace with Market Analyser open. It all turns to custard.

Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thanks for your reply.

Re: the wording in the message 'should be interpreted as' - let's be clear, the whole thing is a mess, ill thought through etc - that is why the wording is quite simply incorrect.for what is taking place in the Market Analyzer situation. In Charts, it does remove the Alert# as it says in the message, hence all the history about templates.

When I test closing a chart in which I have alerts configured, I see the are alerts removed/inactive after the chart is closed. If I close and reopen the workspace, they are restored since the alerts were previously saved in the workspace. If there is a pain point that I am missing, could you provide me some steps that I can walk through to see the same pain point? This can help to illustrate what is happening and we can then communicate that with the Development team.

I have Market Analyzer.in its own workspace. So if you recreate your example but rather than close Market Analyzer with the red cross, save your untitled Workspace as Market Analyzer, then close that Workspace - not red cross Market analyzer you will get the same Alerts message and it doesn't matter what you do Yes or No (because yes, you are correct, the settings are saved to the Workspace - so if you save/close with Alerts enabled, it will open with alerts enabled, if you save close with Alerts disabled, it will open with alerts disabled. But if you close the workspace in which market analyzer resides and is open, you still get the 'remove alerts message, but it doesn't mnatter how you answer.

Yes, we have observed some unexpected behavior which you are describing above. We reported that matter and Development will be removing that "Alerts will be removed" dialog when closing the workspace. That change has been made with NTEIGHT-14266 which will be available in the next release. With these changes made, you can assume that when the workspace is closed with the Market Analyzer open with alerts active, the alerts will be removed from being active as the workspace and Market Analyzer window holding the alerts is closed. As long as the workspace has been saved, or is then saved, the alerts will persist with that Market Analyzer window the next time the window is open.

I am confident that when the next release comes out with this change, any confusion will be alleviated, and you will see behavior that you would expect to see.

However - right now I have my Market Analyser Workspace CLOSED, only my charts workspace open (which have no alerts) and my alerts are firing. I've repeated. open close workspace.. How can that possibly be correct - I don't have Market Analyzer open in any workspace, don't have any alerts other than in market analyzer, yet my alerts are firing.

There is likely more to this issue than I can give insight on for now. If you are able to set up some test workspaces and steps that I can follow to see the same behavior, we can move forward that way, or we can schedule a call to investigate further. If you would like to schedule a call, please message me at platformsupport [at] ninjatrader [dot] com with the text "Attn Jim" the ticket ID "2385548" and a link to this thread. My shift ends at 5PM EST, and I can best schedule a time between 9AM EST and 5PM EST.

We look forward to being of further assistance.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Jim and thanks.

"When I test closing a chart in which I have alerts configured, I see the are alerts removed/inactive after the chart is closed. If I close and reopen the workspace, they are restored since the alerts were previously saved in the workspace. If there is a pain point that I am missing, could you provide me some steps that I can walk through to see the same pain point? This can help to illustrate what is happening and we can then communicate that with the Development team."

What I was referring to here is that Chart alerts are only saved to the workspace, so for example if you duplicate a chart in a new window or tab, you 'lose' the alerts in the new chart. At which point you get the message we are seeing here in Market Analyser - and that is the situation the message is written for, which is why the wording is inappropriate for the Market Analyser situation, which is why it is confusing where/how it appears in Market Analyzer, IIRC (and I'm conscious of the fact that it is getting on for two years since I gave up on trying to use Alerts on Charts and citing from memory, not current experience so have no problem to be corrected). The point (if correct) is that the message in question seems to exist for Alerts for Charts, that is the context for which it is written, appears, and is worded - it isn't saying your Alerts will become 'inactive' (which it doesn't, it doesn't say they'll become inactive, it says you will lose them/be removed which is correct for chart duplication context, not for market analyzer. If you create a Chart, add Alerts to it, then duplicate it you will generate the message and see it appear in the context in which it is appropriate and its wording makes sense. Or at least that's how it seems to me, fwiw.

"Yes, we have observed some unexpected behavior which you are describing above. We reported that matter and Development will be removing that "Alerts will be removed" dialog when closing the workspace. That change has been made with NTEIGHT-14266 which will be available in the next release. With these changes made, you can assume that when the workspace is closed with the Market Analyzer open with alerts active, the alerts will be removed from being active as the workspace and Market Analyzer window holding the alerts is closed. As long as the workspace has been saved, or is then saved, the alerts will persist with that Market Analyzer window the next time the window is open."

Thanks - yes, that is what needs to be done.

"I am confident that when the next release comes out with this change, any confusion will be alleviated, and you will see behaviour that you would expect to see." I hope so

The further issue...
"There is likely more to this issue than I can give insight on for now. If you are able to set up some test workspaces and steps that I can follow to see the same behavior,"

I believe I have figured out what happens. Once an Alert is configured and enabled, it operates irrespective of whether the Market Analyzer window in which it resides is open or not. I don't know whether this applies to Alert created on a chart i.e. once created they operate regardless of whether the chart on which they reside is open, unless disabled & haven't tested
Whether or not it is supposed to or not, I don't know & haven't thought through - but if you could confirm that is what is happening that would be a step forward for me.
None of this is documented, as far as I can see.


Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello brucerobinson,

I believe I have figured out what happens. Once an Alert is configured and enabled, it operates irrespective of whether the Market Analyzer window in which it resides is open or not. I don't know whether this applies to Alert created on a chart i.e. once created they operate regardless of whether the chart on which they reside is open, unless disabled & haven't tested

If the window that holds the alerts is open and in view, or open in another workspace, then the alerts will be active. If the window is closed the alerts will be inactive. This behavior is observed in the demonstration video in post #2. If you are still seeing alerts, the alerts would most likely be firing from another window or possibly from a NinjaScript that fires its own alerts.

You could open an Alerts Log window and check the incoming Alerts to see where they are originating. You can also check/uncheck "Receive alerts from all active workspaces" to narrow down where the alerts are coming from. I.E. see if they are coming from the current workspace or another workspace.

I look forward to assisting.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Jim and thanks.
Unfortunately what I was experiencing was not as you describe, shown in your video, & which I had indeed watched.
The only way I could stop the alerts firing was to exit Ninjatrader.
I have Hotkeys set up to Enable All & Disable All and disabling all did not stop them firing either. Ii I had the Market Analyzer window active, the Hotkeys would change the Alerts Enabled checkbox as expected - but despite showing Enabled unchecked would still fire even after closing Market Analyzer window, until restarting Ninjatrader after which would open per the status i.e. if unchecked, after opening Market Analyzer alerts would not fire, if opened checked, alerts would fire. But nothing short of exiting Ninjatrader would terminate them.

I have Market Analyzer open in its own Workspace (i.e. separate to my trading workspaces containing charts & DOMs). So, I have a 'trading' workspace with charts and DOMs that is the active workspace, and I have a Market Analyzer workspace that is open but not the active workspace, which contains the Market Analzer window open, on which are configured the alerts.

So, for my configuration, to clarify your statement on the requirement for the MArket Analyzer in which the alerts are configured to be open/visible/active etc - from the 'bottom up', the Alerts are configured on Market Analyzer, the Market Analyzer window is open and is visible if the Market Analyzer workspace is the active workspace, but it isn't.... it is open and running, but in the background. Hence the Market Analyzer window would be in view if I were to switch to the Market Analyzer workspace to make it the active one. 'In view' is not a requirement. The workspace in which market analyzer on which the alerts are configured does not even have to be the active one, it can be open but running in the background and the alerts will be active if enabled...

There is no doubt over where the alerts are coming from - the only place I have alerts configured is on the Market Analyzer window in the Workspace I named Market Analyzer for this purpose. I don't have alerts configured anywhere else in any workspace (e.g. none on charts in my trading workspaces, no other Market Analyzer windows open in any workspace other than the one specifically for the purpose and only one instance of Market Analyzer open in that workspace) and no Ninjacript-generated alerts. I have an Alerts Log window open. It populates with the Alerts as configured in the Market Analyzer window in the Market Analyzer Workspace, as expected. They do so as long as the workspace is open irrespective of if in view (which is what I expected/want, but not what you describe as expected) and if I double-click a message in Alerts Log it causes the Market Analyzer window to flash red, the 'second' problem (as opposed to the erroneous and confusing popup message) I was experiencing/reporting was that they wouldn't stop. The confusing erroneous message and its effects just adds to the confusion/understanding what should be and/or is happening.

Clear as mud.

My understanding = if alerts are configured in Market Analyzer and are Enabled, and the Workspace in which Market Analyzer resides is open/running, alerts will be active. It doesn't matter if said workspace is not the active workspace, as long as it is open. The Market Analyser window does not have to be visible (e.g. if a different workspace is open in addition, and is the active workspace hence Market Analyzer window not visible, the Alerts will still be active). (in contrast. the Market Analyser window does have to be visible/active for the Enable/Disable All hotkeys to work. for example, which is described in Help)

Kind regards,.

.

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello brucerobinson,

I have updated my post so it is is clearer. In order for an alert to fire it must be configured in a NinjaScript or a window in an open workspace. The workspace holding the window does not have to be in view, but would have to be open.

Following your last post, we understand where the alerts are fired and your understanding is correct as far as the window with the alerts needing to be open in a workspace for the alert to fire. We can leave this and focus on the remaining items:

Double clicking on the alert entry in the Alerts window will flash the title bar of the window which triggered the alert.

I have Hotkeys set up to Enable All & Disable All and disabling all did not stop them firing either. Ii I had the Market Analyzer window active, the Hotkeys would change the Alerts Enabled checkbox as expected - but despite showing Enabled unchecked would still fire even after closing Market Analyzer window, until restarting Ninjatrader after which would open per the status i.e. if unchecked, after opening Market Analyzer alerts would not fire, if opened checked, alerts would fire. But nothing short of exiting Ninjatrader would terminate them.

This thread is getting very cumbersome, which is making it difficult to follow. I would like to focus on this issue alone, and if we need to revisit other items we can do so after we have gotten past this one.

When I test with Alerts configured in a Market Analyzer alone, and with the Hot Keys enabled for the Market Analyzer to Enable/Disable All Alerts, I am able to disable Alerts without having any issue. Note that since the Hot Keys are enabled for the Market Analyzer that window will have to be clicked on/in focus to use the Hot Keys.

Demo - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-_s...w?usp=drivesdk

Please test the same as I have on your end with other workspaces and windows closed. If you see other alerts fire in your Alerts log, please double click on the alert to see the window where it is originating.

If you still see an issue, please set up a simple alert like I have that can demonstrate the issue, and please send me an email at platformsupport [at] ninjatrader [dot] com with the text "Attn Jim 2385548" and a link to this thread so we can schedule a time to get connected and I can observe what is happening first hand. (I tested an Alert with Ask > Bid that rearms every second.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Jim and thanks.
Yes, I have everything set up per your helpful video re: the MA window, Alerts Log, Enable/Disable Hotkeys etc.

Firstly to say: forget the issue/possibility of alerts coming from anywhere other than those Alerts configured in the Market Analyser workspace containing the Market Analyser window and Alerts Log window (I understand your logic).
My Market Analyser workspace is just the same as your example in the video - Control Center, (single) MA Window, Alerts Log. I have several Alerts with different Conditions and trigger sound files also, but clicking on each and every Message in the Alert Log causes the MA window title bar to flash red, showing that each and all alerts triggering originate from this MA window - not another MA window, not another MA window in another workspace, not charts (I don't have any alerts on any charts), not from any Ninjascript - I don't have any indicators'Alerts enabled, I don't have any Custom scripts). I already wrote this. Because all my MA Alerts are configured to play Sound Files, and I use custom sound files ('Oil', 'Dow' etc to tell me which instrument triggered a condition) I can say with certainty.

The problem is not to do with Hotkeys successfully changing the Enabled/Disabled Alert status. If I use my Enable Hotkey, the Checkboxes status is checked per your video. If I use my Disable Hotkey, Checkboxes status is unchecked. However, whilst the checkbox status becomes unchecked, the Alerts continue to fire. Even if I then close the workspace containing Market Analyser they continue to fire.
The only way to stop them is to Exit NinjaTrader. On re-opening NinjaTrader and the MA Analyser workspace, the Alerts will resume in whatever status the checkboxes were in on Exit i.e. if Disabled checkbox (although firing) they would appear disabled on resume, if Enabled they would appear enabled on resume.

Simply put, there is a 'disconnect' between checkbox status and whether the Alerts are active, or not. Once Enabled, the Hotkey will change the checkbox status to Disabled, but it does not change the status of the Alert - it keeps firing. Closing the MA Window does not stop them firing. Closing the workspace in which the MA resides does not stop them firing. Given that Disable Hotkey changes the checkbox status as expected but not the behaviour of the Alert itself, and closing the MA window and/or closing the workspace in which it resides should each stop the alerts firing (i.e. MA window has to be open for alerts to be 'active'), but the only thing that does stop them once enabled is to Exit the program and upon re-opening normal behaviour is resumed, this to me is indicative of something not working as it should.

I hope this adequately describes what is happening - it is the opposite of looking for alerts coming from elsewhere, there is no doubt which alerts they are - the question is, once enabled why are they continuing to fire even when disabled by Hotkey, status says disabled, MA window and its workspace closed?

I hope this may give you information from which you can replicate, identify & resolve.

I'm not going to spend further time doing so myself for now. I'll continue to keep an eye on Update's Release Notes & if I see something that looks like it may be it & Fixed, I may then return to it.

Thank you for your attention and assistance with this matter.
Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Jim]

Hello brucerobinson,

the question is, once enabled why are they continuing to fire even when disabled by Hotkey, status says disabled, MA window and its workspace closed?

I have been attempting to reproduce this behavior and I have not been able to. The best way I can assist here is if I got connected to your PC to observe the behavior to troubleshoot, or so I can get the exact context down so we can reproduce the behavior and report it. I understand the symptoms you are mentioning, but as you have seen in my videos, I have not been able to encounter that behavior.

Please message me at platformsupport [at] ninjatrader [dot] com with a phone number and a time we can get connected. (Please include a time zone.) I am best available between 9:00AM EST and 5:00PM EST. Please also include the text "Attn Jim 2385548" and a link to this thread when writing in so we can link the ticket when it arrives in our main queue.

I look forward to assisting.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Jim and thanks.
I've explained beyond reasonable doubt that the issues I'm encountering aren't due to extraneous things like alerts from elsewhere, other workspaces etc, etc. I only have alerts in one scenario, my MA workspace containing one MA window.
Thanks for your offer, but I don't want to spend more of my time trying to resolve this. I've spent too much on that.

Development should spend more time not releasing stuff that doesn't work and expecting Users to spend their time fixing it.
Kind regards,