Drawn lines appear in different locations in different time frames

[cabum]

Hello cabum,

The DataBox.

Middle mouse click (meaning click the scroll-wheel on the mouse) over the data bar you want to view the time, open, low, and close of.

Or right-click the chart > select Show Data Box > the hover the mouse over the bar you want to view the time and ohlc of.

Chelsea,

On Daily chart it doesn't show time of opening. But based on the opening price it's 17:00, i.e. today candle started yesterday at 17:00.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

NinjaTrader shows the time of the bar as the Close time. The time of the bar is not the open time of the bar its the close time.

When you are looking at an open daily bar that is still building, you are looking at the time that the bar will close in the future at the end of the session.

The extended line has the end anchor set to the close time of the daily bar as shown in the video

What is the date and close time of the last daily bar?

[cabum]

Chelsea,

I don't have time of close. All I have is:
W
D
O
H
L
C
V
Nothing else for any daily bar.

This is going nowhere. I propose to forget about daily chart. The issue is completely same inside only 5Min chart.
Please see attached the another sample. It doesn't involve any daily chart, no extension line going far-far-far away, just same 5Min chart but having different period (3 and 30 days).
You can see the trend line distortion very clearly: initially it's above the chart, after the period is reduced - appears below the chart.
Let me repeat it - it's totally the same chart, no messing with closing date - time - anchors - whatever.
Please explain what's happening.
Thank you.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1C1v...ew?usp=sharing

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

The link you have provided does not work.

Are you redrawing the line over a 5 minute bar?

What is the close date and time and the close price of the 5 minute bar the start anchor is drawn over?
What is the close date and time and the close price of the 5 minute bar the endanchor is drawn over?

What is the date and time and price of the start anchor of the line?
What is the date and time and price of the end anchor of the line?

What is the close date and time and close price of the 1 minute bar the start anchor is drawn over?
What is the close date and time and close price of the 1 minute bar the end anchor is drawn over?

Are you seeing the extended line's anchor prices change?

Are you clear at this point that a daily bar's close time is at the end of the session?
This would be a 5:00 PM Central time.
On the CL a daily bar should never be closing at 6:40 AM in any time zone as this should close at the end of an hour.

[cabum]

Chelsea,


Sorry, please see the video here:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1C1v5Rcb7SKjr0NAdBM-h4VqdW9YAGDQR

Regarding your questions - it's all same. The chart is same. closing-opening-whatever is all same. As you may see in the video, coordinates of the line also remain same.
But the line and chart change their positions relative to each other. What was a supply line for the chart, became a demand line for the same chart!

I'm not anchoring the line to any specific point, just draw it blindly.


Thanks

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

Your most recent video does not show the line values changing.

You have removed the bars that the first anchor is placed over. This drastically changes the angle of the line relative to the bars on the chart, but doesn't change its anchors.

But since you have removed the bars under the first anchor, the first available bar is where the anchor is placed.

This behavior is the opposite of the first video which removes the bars under the second anchor.


Your video does not answer the questions from my previous post.

Where in the video are you showing the date time and close price of the bars?

What is the close date and time and the close price of the 5 minute bar the start anchor is drawn over?
What is the close date and time and the close price of the 5 minute bar the endanchor is drawn over?

What is the close date and time and close price of the 1 minute bar the start anchor is drawn over?
What is the close date and time and close price of the 1 minute bar the end anchor is drawn over?


I have also asked the time and price of the anchors of the extended line. While you have provided a video you have provided the requested values. I am including the values from your video so that these are in written form.
Start time July 9th, 2018 16:45:00.
Start price 2788,40657894737
End time July 3rd, 2018 10:05:00
End price 2712,40759109312

[cabum]

Chelsea,


To make things easier, please see the picture attached.





You mention all the time the importance of anchors. From the picture above can you please just tell straight what exactly has changed? What point moved where etc. Like "This anchor was attached to this point, but since this points is gone due to reducing of charting period, it looks other points" etc.etc. Can you please explain it this way? Because I understand it probably the another way (like you may just close the part of chart with the line with you palm and everything remains exactly the same but without charts to the left). You remove your palm - it just opens the chart to the left.

Bottom line - I want to have the drawn line remain constant COMPARED to the chart and while changing timeframes.

I.e. if I have a line ABOVE the chart (i.e. resistance), I want it to remain ABOVE charts if I switch to minutes-ticks-any period.

Like it's done in other softwares.
Is that possible?


Thank you.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

If you are removing data from the chart, it will not be possible to have the data remain in the place in relation to the line.

If the anchor is over a bar and that bar is removed, the position of that bar can no longer be used in reference to the line. So the reference is moved to the first available.

So the answer is, as long as you are removing bars from under the anchors, it will not be possible to prevent the chart data from changing in relation to the line.

The line's anchor information isn't changing. What is changing is the chart behind the line. The line can no longer use the position of the bar that was removed so it uses the position of the first available bar's information.

The time of the daily bar was ending at 17:00. One anchor of line was drawn to that time. Then that bar was removed from under that anchor. The last point of reference is now the last 6:40 minute bar (11 hours and 20 minutes earlier) and so the line uses that last bit of information to project the line using the available data on the chart.
The same is happening when you change the days to load. If an anchor is drawn on a bar 4 or more days ago, and then that 4th day is removed by reducing the days to load to 3, the bar from under that anchor is removed. The position information for that bar is removed. The line can no longer reference that bar. So it uses the information from the first available bar after the time of its anchor.
If the bars don't exist under the anchors, then it will use the information thats available on the chart.

If there was 5 days of data on the chart and if you were to draw a line to a daily bar from 2 days ago to yesterday, and then change the data (and the data still has 5 days to load and encompasses yesterday) then the line would not appear to move in relation to the data even when the bar type or interval is changed because there would still be a bar under the anchors for the line.

[cabum]

Chelsea,


Now I understand you completely. I had no idea this instrument has such limitations.
What instrument could I possibly use for my purpose?
As I said, I need to have a trend line set on a daily chart and remain in place while I'm switching to lower time frames. Any add-ons maybe?
Please advise.


Thanks for your time and clarifications!

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

Make sure the time and dates of the anchors are within the data on the chart so the line has something to reference with in relation to.

[cabum]

Hello cabum,

Make sure the time and dates of the anchors are within the data on the chart so the line has something to reference with in relation to.

In many cases that's not possible. For example I switch from 1 or 4 hour time frame having a period of 30 days to 1-2 min charts, and it's very inconvenient and time consuming to have same 30 days on these charts, so normally it's just 2-3 days period.
Now I also understand why when I copy -paste trend lines between different charts it never appears where I expect it to appear. But honestly still don't understand why your engineers have taken this path instead of having single fixed straightforward coordinate system for all charts. Probably I'm missing something, just used to such way of using line instruments.
Anyway, thanks for your patience. We just should have clarified the basis first thus saving time.
All the best!

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

This would be impossible to do for a lot of bar types without bars on the chart.

With no data bars, there is no way to know where the x position would relate to time or the y position with price. It would just be an arbitrary line pointing to a theoretical place floating in space.

How many seconds is a range bar open for? If you project into blank space at a specific time, how many bar slots is that in range bars which are open for different amounts of time? (Like how many range bars are in 30 minutes on every instrument?)
There is absolutely no way to know. Basically we would have to just make something up and choosing a random spot that's not related to any bar information. If the bar spacing is changed and there is no bar to anchor to, there is no way to calculate the slope of the line.

The drawing objects are relative to the chart bars. Without chart bars there is no way to position something in blank space (with non-time-based bars).

So instead, if you plan to draw a line over a certain amount of day, keep those days on the chart if you don't want the data to change relative to the line. Or just make sure that your line anchor times are within the span of the chart after the range of bars is changed. Don't set anchors to outside of the data and you will not have this issue.

I'm happy to submit a feature request on your behalf for the NinjaTrader Development to consider this for a future version if you would like.

[cabum]

Thank you Chelsea.
If any object (or we better say some elementary elements of objects) have fixed coordinates in terms of price and time, then no matter what you do to charts (in fact to coordinate system: reduce/increase interval, scale in/out, etc) all elements remain in same positions relatively to each other.
This mechanism is realized in certain mapping software for example.
I doubt it's possible to implement at this stage at least, but still if possible - please submit, at least it's always good to have a second opinion I believe.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello cabum,

Again, this is not something that is possible.

A fixed x and y point would not move when the chart bars are scrolled left or right.

The only way to have the line move with the chart bars when they are scrolled is to anchor the line to specific bars on the chart.

Then as the chart is adjusted the line is adjusted with the bars.

Without bars, the line has nothing to attach to. A line with stuck to the same x and y would not scroll and would not be in relation to the chart bars.

The anchor already has a fixed time and price. The issue is knowing where to render these in relation to the bars. If there is no bar, there is no way to convert the price and time to an x and y position.

Each time the data on the chart is changed the entire chart is reloaded. Everything is recalculated. Without the bar, we would have no idea how far ago an hour would be or 3 minutes. A lot of bar types are not time based.

If you can answer how many bars is 1 hour on a 150 tick chart, we may then be able to code this in a way that estimates the number of bar slots. However, our development has designed the charts in this way, on purpose, because they were not able to find a way to guess how many bars slots away something is without the bars being there when the number of bars is arbitrary to the amount of time.

This is similar to asking "How long is every piece of string"?
A piece of string can be any length. How would it be possible to cut a strip of paper to be the exact same length as any arbitrary piece of string someone gives you when all of the pieces of string are different lengths.

If it doesn't work for all bar types, its not something we can code into the behavior for drawing objects.

So, we could code drawing objects to have a fixed x and y position, but if we did so the drawing objects would not scroll with the bars. Even then, there is still no way to know how many 150 tick bars are in an hour. If the line anchor is floating 1 hour behind the chart, there is no way to say how many tick based bars this is.

[eDanny]

It is impossible to know how many bars are between the start anchor bar and the first bar of the chart (bar 0). Simple trig. dictates you need to know how many bar slots between the anchors in order to draw the line in the correct place and angle.