Alert Time Data Series Object not saving?

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
I've tried to create an Alert exactly per the Alerts - Example: Time-based alert in the Help Guide (with the exception that I chose Rearm type 'On connect'*)
The problem I encounter is that the Time Data Series will not Save. The Time folder is present, I can open the folder, the Data Series is there, (Step 1 in Help), I can select/highlight the Data Series on the chart I wish to use.
However when I finish building the Condition and other steps, the Left-hand Object Field Name is empty (It shows Time value "" i.e. betweeen the quotes is empty as opposed to Time value "ES-03-20" which is what I selected.
So, it is recognising that I selected/opened the Time folder, but not registering that I selected/highlighted the Data Series and leaves the field empty.
When I re-open the Alert, it defaults back to the Data Series folder (rather than Time folder) presumably because it Defaults to this with the Instrument's data Series highlighted.
But the Object is still showing Time value ""

This happens on each chart I have tried agnostic to instrument, timeframe etc

*I tried using On bar close as Rearm so as identical to the example also to no avail, no difference, same behaviour

Any ideas?

Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Melissa]

Hello,

Thank you for the post.

I tried to replicate this on my installation of the platform but was unable to do so. Saving the alert did not result in the missing time value as we see in your screenshot.

Please send me your log and trace files so that I may look into what occurred.

You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Email Support

Ensuring 'Log and Trace Files' is checked will include these files. This is checked by default.

Please reference the following ticket number in the body of the email: ATTN Melissa 2390667

Thanks in advance; I look forward to resolving your inquiry.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Melissa and thanks.
Done
Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Hello Melissa,
I'vve sent you a video clip by email - 19mb is apparently too large for here.
I didn't realise recorder doesn't capture mouse pointer so some pauses but you'll get the gist
Ignore the ES Tck chart example - was on wrong chart.
GC simply shows same as on ES, but different window, instrument etc etc same problem, i.e. 100% replicable - Time value works when selecting an absolute value rather than off a DataSeries bar timestamp.
Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_Melissa]

Hello,

Thank you for the update.

I just received the video and will follow up shortly.

Thank you for your patience.

[brucerobinson]

## Reply ABOVE THIS LINE to add a note to this request ##

Hello Melissa and thanks for your email.

"Do you happen to have your ES 03-20 Data Series label setting blank?

I was able to replicate this when the label setting was blank; this caused the alert condition to revert to the Data Series.

I am going to reach out to our development team to see if this is expected behavior. In the meantime, to get your alerts working, I would recommend using a label for those Data Series so your indicator. I will respond back when I hear more from development about this symptom."

Yes, I do have my Data Series Label setting blank, as I do with most Labels e.g. Indicators' also
Well done for diagnosing it so rapidly.

There is a reason for this which is that there is no other way (that I am aware of or been advised of) to prevent them appearing in the top of the Chart, which other Users have criticised on this Forum as it causes useless Chart clutter..

Removing Labels has no detrimental effect on any other platform functionality in my use.

But I can put the Alert on a chart I don't trade off.

Thank you for your assistance

Kind regards,

Update - the NY Close Alert just triggered with the Settings per my screenshots and video. It says Time Value in the Condition but when re-open the condition defaults to displaying Data Series giving the impression it has changed and (me) confusion. So the unexpected behaviour seems only to be the re-opening on the Data Series highlighted, it hasn't changed the Condition (consistent with what it still has as the entry in the Condition Object)
But it shouldn't, and isn't helpful that it does. I guess it doesn't do this if you have a Label?

[NinjaTrader_Melissa]

Hello,

Thank you for the response.

I tested this a bit more and worked with some colleagues as well to see if we could find any potential workaround.

What we found is that the condition displays incorrectly but the alert still triggers as expected. I tested with an alert on my ES chart without any labels and, while the display is a bit confusing because it does not identify the correct condition in the alerts builder, the trigger occured right when I expected it to as pictured in the attached image.

That being said, I am still submitting feedback to development to improve the display in the Alerts condition builder to prevent this confusion for you and other users. I will follow up with a tracking number once one is generated.

Thank you for your patience.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Melissa and thanks.
Yes, that's what I found.
Shouldn't do that, annoying that it does causing this expenditure of time.
Efficient action on your part though - good job well done & thanks. Good to see.
Kind regards.

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
Unfortunately more trouble. Please see attached window grabs.
Alert triggered timestamped just past 10:30
Condition is set for 11:25

Any ideas?

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

and now again.....
11:20, not 11:25.

[NinjaTrader_Melissa]

Hello Bruce,

Thank you for the update.

I am testing some of these alerts on my platform now and will respond back when I have more information.

Thank you for your patience.

[NinjaTrader_Melissa]

Hello,

Thanks for your patience while I tested this.

We did some more testing and see the behavior you described. The exact trigger time varied quite a bit in the Alerts log.

After further testing, if I changed the "Bars ago" setting in the alert condition to 1 it would trigger at the correct time every time. I attached an example.


It looks like this is related to the bar size and how time is read through the code used for alerts. For example, with your settings but a 1 Second chart, the alert triggers 1 second before the specified time. If I change the data series to 5 minutes I return to the behavior you are seeing.

While the workaround I mentioned should work for your charts if they are all 5 minute intervals, I do realize it is a bit frustrating. We are documenting this behavior with the development team for a potential fix down the line.

Please let me know if you have any further questions.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Melissa and thanks, that is helpful.
Thank you for your excellent assistance in unravelling this sorry state of affairs.

So, to recap:

Issue 1 - Conditioner Builder not showing the correct Condition Data Series on re-opening the Condition.
This seems to be caused by making the Label Field of the Data Series empty. The Condition displays correctly Time Value "". Between the quotes is blank due to the Label Field being empty. An unintended, misleading and confusing consequence is that on re-opening the Condition the Selection Defaults to displaying the uppermost item in the List (Data Series folder, uppermost Data Series). This is misleading and confusing because whilst it shows it highlighted/selected, it is not in fact so - Time Value "" is still displayed in the Object List, and is still active.
Furthermore, this behaviour is not consistent, per my comments about subsequently displaying with nothing highlighted on re-opening, adding to the confusion.
Today I find further confusion - see attached screengrab. I now have yet another message suggesting that in this case the setting has indeed in fact been lost.

Issue 2 - Alerts firing incorrectly. You have confirmed what I reported which is that such Alerts will trigger sometimes at seemingly random times but more often with some relationship with the Data Series' timeframe. e.e. if a 5minute, trigger 5 min beforehand, 1 second, 1 second beforehand. This can be overcome by setting the Bars ago Field to 1. Presumably this will require a further 'workaround' insofar as if I want an Alert to trigger 5 minutes before an Open using a 5min timefram chart I will have to set the Time Value on the other side of the Condition 10 minutes ahead - 5minutes in advance plus 5 minutes to look back one bar? Or will is 'look at the Close of the bar' with Bars ago 1, hence be triggered 5 mins ahead of the other side of the Condtion? Or,perhaps more likely since iirc the Help specifies it is using the bar Timestamp which is the Close iirc,which is likely why it can't use the current bar until it has a Close Timestamp requiring bars ago 0 - but I am beyond my tether trying to reverse engineer what is going on with such garbage. I'd be grateful if you would confirm, given that you've done the work to test and save me doing so.

What is sickening (and this is to bring it into plain sight for other victims, not directed in any way shape or form at your assistance) is as follows:

- around 2 years ago I attempted to configure alerts on charts (a different Use Case - trigger on approaching OHL indicators, which I have achieved in Market Analyzer)
- I experienced exactly the same issues relating to use of a blank Label Field - total carnage, unintentional and erratic behaviours. As a result, I gave up at the time
- I experienced exactly the same type of issues with erratic triggering of Alerts which you workaround with Bars ago when using a Look back period of 0 on Data Series/OHL indicators
- in both cases, the Documentation showed examples which I followed precisely and did not work. The 'Look back period of 0' example was subsequently deleted. The 'Time-based' example is a subsequent addition to Help and does not work.

So in 2 years, none of this has been fixed, Ninja continues to put out software with more bugs than a hobo's sleeping bag and Help examples/documentation that has not been tested.

If not to be a complete waste of my time yet again, it seems I will need to implement 2 workarounds -
a) I'll have to use a label because per my today's screenshot behaviour without a Label is seemingly completely erratic and based on today's message most likely renders the Alert in-operable. Using a Label is not a problem as it can be done on one chart only where I set up the Alert. Had I known I would have just used Goggle Calendar. But why do I make the Label Field blank? Because Ninja prints the contents in the chart, a criticism levelled by others; and
if, and it is still a big if yet to be seen, adding a Label stops the above,
b) use Bars ago 1. So why does the Documentation example show Bars ago 0, which doesn't work, clearly the example hasn't been tested, QA? etc etc. Just as was the case with Look back period 0 2 years ago.

'Twas ever thus.

Thanks again for your assistance. The only positive aspect of this interchange.

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Hello Melissa,
"After further testing, if I changed the "Bars ago" setting in the alert condition to 1 it would trigger at the correct time every time. "
This does not work for me, because it will not Save the Time folder Settings (the Title of this thread).
I gave the Data Series a Label (ES 03-20). The Condition Object displays in the List as expected (see capture1)
However the problem previously reported of reverting to the Data Series folder after closing and re-opening the Condition remains i.e. change Bars ago to 1 in Time folder, apply close re-open and the Data Series folder is open and uppermost data series highlighted.
If I switch to Time folder, Bars ago is 0, not saved. If I do likewise in Data Series Bars ago to 1, it saves.
So, 'Time' folder Settings are not saving.
I deleted the Alert completely and reconstructed from scratch. Same experience.

"I do realize it is a bit frustrating. We are documenting this behavior with the development team for a potential fix down the line."
I did all this 2 years ago, reported it, spent many many hours chasing my tail and nothing has been done. Development continue to produce and release this garbage. It has been a known issue for at least 2 years, yet it is published as a Help-documented Example which is untested and doesn't work.

It appears no-one ever accepts responsibility or held accountable.

Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello Bruce,

We appreciate you bringing this to our attention, and I have reported this to our development team for further examination. I'd like to examine if this is related to the previous issue you are referencing, or if this is a similar but different item. Do you have a previous ticket number or forum link referencing this?
Please write into platformsupport[at]ninjatrader[dot]com ATTN Ryan so I may start tracking this within our system for further review.