Alert Time Data Series Object not saving?

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan and thanks.
I don't recall a ticket number and iirc correctly that was because I abandoned my efforts.

You can find reference and approximate timing in this thread here https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...lerts-question

It makes for some dismal reading but what you can glean from it (Post #9 on) 2 issues that seem similar in nature to what is being seen here and some indication of date may help you, 1) the LHS Condition Folder 'issue' of not being 'sticky' (although the Condition it seems may stick) possibly linked to leaving the Label field blank (I refer in the text to Development releasing updates that 'broke' 200 alerts (no Alerts template), the updates at the time were breaking the Condition associations), and 2) you will see reference to conflicting information from Patricks G & H as to whether or not the LHS Condition could reference Last Price within the Current Bar, or could not use Look Back period 0 (despite the Documentation giving an example using 0, which was subsequently changed to 1). This seems a 'similar' issue to Melissa's finding re: Bars ago, triggering at unexpected times etc but working robustly with Bars ago 1. This seems to me to be being addressed differently in Market Analyzer with addition of LHS Condition 'Last Price' Column rather than using a Data Series, but above my pay-grade.

I hope this helps in your quest.
I am not pursuing this any further. My main objective from Alerts was for Last Price approaching Session High/Lows which I have achieved through Alerts on Market Analyser.
Alerts for Session Open/Close Time-based Alerts is trivial and can be achieved outside Ninja.
Flushed with success with H/L Alerts in Analyzer which assist in my trading, and seeing a worked example in the Documentation for Time-based, I started down this path, only to find myself re-living a nightmare.

Kind regard & good luck.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan and thanks.
I don't have a ticket number because at the time I gave up.
However in this thread https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...lerts-question Post #9 2/3 down you will see me referring to Development putting out an 'update that broke 200 Alerts'. So Development were 'having issues' in whatever was the current version at the time of that post, and given the update broke, in the version prior also. Should give you an idea of timings/releases/fixes which I hope is helpful to you.

The entire thread bear a horrible similarity to this one - LHS Condition not working correctly (made worse by updates breaking it), conflicting information from Support as to Look back 0 or 1 and incorrect documentation, and Alerts triggering incorrectly/at seemingly random times.(as Melissa found yesterday)

Today, I have Gold Close triggered 5mins before set to (RHS Time value 13:25 triggered 13:20:01), CL set 14:25 triggered 14:20:00, and DAX set to 11:25 and triggered 10:30 (yes, 10!).

All are on 5min charts. Two are 5mins earty, one is 55mins early. Or, if the 5mins on CL & GC are due to which bar is triggering, then it is 50 mins 'plus the bar error'. Either way, it is not what the Condition says - Greater equal :XX25

I've checked and double-checked my Settings.

I'm giving up on this, again.

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
Update -

DAX Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 03:25, triggered 03:20:02
GC Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 08:15, triggered 08:10:01
CL Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 08:55, triggered 08:50:00
ES Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 09:25, triggered 09:25:00
DAX Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 11:25, triggered 11:20:00

Seems ES is the only one that exhibits expected behaviour.
Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Update:
GC Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 08:15, triggered 08:15:00
CL Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 08:55, triggered 08:55:00
ES Open Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 09:25, triggered 09:25:00
DAX Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 11:25, triggered 11:25:00
GC Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 13:25, triggered 13:25:00
CL Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 14:25, triggered 14:25:00
ES Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 15:55, triggered 15:55:00

I have done absolutely nothing at my end,

So presumably you have?

Kind regards,.

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

The development team is still investigating the issue, so I have not received any update at this time. Once they update me with the expected outcome or resolution I will let you know, as well as test on my end to confirm the behavior and setup.


Thanks for your patience on this matter.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan and thanks.
FYI all Time-based Alerts triggered correctly today, as yesterday.
Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

update:
yesterday all triggered as expected with the exception of:

ES Close Alert triggered - RHS Condition Time value 15:55, triggered 16:00:01 (i.e. next bar)

[brucerobinson]

today all as configured except ES which both Open and Close triggered in next bar:30 and :00 respectively, value set to :25 and :55

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

NinjaTrader has end of bar timestamps so if the current time is 10:10:01 and you set the alert for 10:11:00 -> the alert would fire immediately because the currently building bar has a timestamp of 10:11:00.

We are reviewing the help guide to create a better example of how these should be constructed.

I will move this to a new thread as this is operating on a different set of conditions.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan and thanks.
All the Alerts are armed On Connect.
Your explanation suggests you believe I am setting/arming 'at or around the time the Alert is triggering'. Both the ES alerts and all the others referred to in this thread reside on their respective charts permanently and are armed when I Connect, typically around 03:00 EST. Time then marches on and the ES Open Alert should trigger at 09:25 per the Condition (see screenshots I provided in Post #2).
Per the other information I have provided in this thread, sometimes they do, sometimes they do not trigger until the next bar.

If you require further explanation, please advise. Or if I am mis-understanding, please advise.
The Alert Condition is to trigger when Time value is 09:25. The Alert is armed when I Connect way before 09:25. All the Alerts are 'pre-configured' and are not altered since beginning this thread. Each day they are all armed well before any of their Time values. As reported, sometimes they trigger per their Conditions, sometimes on the next bar.
Kind regards,

[NinjaTrader_RyanS]

Hello,

Since bars use the ending time value as a time stamp, you will have to account for the interval bar you are using for the alert. For instance, if using a 5 minute bar, setting the alert as 'when time stamp of the current bar on the ES data series is greater/equal to 9:25' this would cause the alert to fire at 9:20:01 since that bars time stamp is 9:25. Alternatively, you could set the value to 9:30 to have it fire at 9:25:01, or you could set the condition to greater instead of greater/equal.

Please let me know if I may assist further.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan and thanks.
I believe I understand what you are saying:
When the bar timestamped Close 15:55 opens at 15:50:01, the Condition of Greater/Equal 15:55 is met, despite actual Time being 15:50:01 i.e. Time value Condition is using bar timestamp Close value as soon as the bar opens, not when that actual real Time value is reached at the Close of the bar.

Bizarre, not what is to be expected and not what is described in the Help documentation example.

That aside, firstly the effect of this would be that using a Time value of 15:55 should trigger at 15:50:01 as soon as Time value 15:55 is equal to (can 'see' Timestamp Close 15:55 Close), whereas it triggered today at 16:00 i.e. the following bar, not 4:59secs early, and does not explain why the same Alert sometimes has triggered at 15:55, sometimes at 15:55:01 and sometimes at 16:00?


Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Hello again Ryan.
I see you have separated the FDAX Market Analyzer Alert into a new thread as a separate issue. Fine, but I suggest you change the Subject to avoid confusion. Certainly the Subject is not 'Alerts not saving' which was the initial issue at the beginning of this Thread.

There are now 3 issues:
1. The initial one in this thread that Melissa investigated, replicated - that issue seems to be that if the Label field is left blank, the Selected Folder for the First RHS Condition is not 'sticky' and defaults to the uppermost folder. The Condition itself IS retained, it is just that it does not revert to the Folder on re-opening
2. How/when the Time-based Alert Condition is met and unreliability of operation
3. Failure of an Indicator-based Alert in Market Analyzer to trigger in (new thread).

Continuing 2.
Please see attached screenshots of a Time-based Alert created to Play a Sound file ('DAX Open in 5 minutes.wav) when triggered
DAX Alert - . Configured "DAX Open in 5 minutes", Enabled, Rearm type 'On connect'. I open NT and Connect well before the DAX Open (i.e. the issue you pointed to of arming the alert in the bar before in post #24 is not an issue
Object TimeValue "" field is empty between "" because I do not have a Label (see Melissa's earlier on this).
Dax Alert Condition - LHS DAX 5min Time Series (Session time is 16:30 to 16:15 EOD EST), RHS 03:25 (Frankfurt Open)
DAX Alert triggered Alerts log - triggered 03:25:00

Now according to the Help documentation and your responses above according to Ninja this Condition should trigger at the open of the bar timestamped (the Close) with the Time value 03:25 i.e. 03:20:01

But it doesn't. As you can clearly see, it triggered at 03:25:00, which is what I want.
What I have reported above is that a) it may trigger on the subsequent bar (post #23 - in that case it was ES alert, but they are all the same Conditions) and b) is not reliable, with other examples (which Melissa also encountered) firing at very random times, some triggering at 03:25:01, and sometimes triggering at 03:30 i.e. on the bar AFTER the Condition - not at the start of of the bar 03:20:01 per your/Help Example

Firstly, no-one seems to grasp what is not working - I have given several examples of various alerts triggering a) at different times for no apparent reason and b) that they are not behaving per the Documentation. Please explain to me why, according to your/Help's explanation, this alert triggered at 03:25:00 and not 03:20:01? Then, please explain why it (or other examples) will trigger at either 03:25:01 or 03:30:00 seemingly at will.

Re: the Documentation - feedback. Putting aside that the software does not behave as described. It is almost incomprehensible to the lay-reader. To give you/your team a lay-User's perspective: in real life, if I set a Time-based alert in any other walk of life if I set it for 03:25 I expect it to trigger at 03:25. End of story. That is Expected Behaviour. That not being so with Ninjatrader, the onus is on Ninja to explain departure from expectation with clear simple comprehensible steps. It starts by talking about being based on Timestamps of bars. Not really interested, I just want to know how to set it and it to work. Why does it matter, why do I care. Only at the END does it tell me the bars are timestamped at the CLOSE of the bar, which is what I might need to know.. It then 'explains' that the 2:15 Alert it has walked me through creating will trigger at 2:14:01. Eh? It is just bizarre.. I understand that it is, and that is due to how the platform is architected but the explanation is appalling. The ACTUAL answer to why it is 2:14:01 (rather than any other random time or e.g. 2:10:01 or 02:00) is a combination of Greater Equal Condition used and - more importantly, because the example uses a 1 Minute Time Series. But this explanation re: Condition being met on Open of bar, ! Minute time series and 2:14:01 (rather than expectation if I set an alert at 2:15 it will trigger at 2:15), isn't there - so it has to be figured out to understand what is going on. Reverse engineer. You have to know how it works in advance, or spend a lot of time figuring it out.

By coders, for coders.

Heaven help any intending to use this for entries.

I look forward to your further explanation for this behaviour and why it is not reliable. According to your/Help's explanation, the Alert should trigger at 03:20:01. Attached it triggered at 03:25:00. Other occasions at 03:25:01 or 03:30:00.

Post #28 and still clueless.

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Hello Ryan,
Please see attached for Gold market.
Condition is Time value 08:15.
Chart is 5min.
According to what I'm told & Help, this should trigger at 08:10:01, yes?

It triggered at 08:15:00, see Alerts Log........?

Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

Oil - same. Time value 08:55, triggered 08:55:00

Not what you wrote/Help.

And then it will change/be different..... per what I've being reporting