One Workspaces or Few Workspaces for different Instruments

[contrax]

What is better if i like to see 4 different Timeframe for each Instrument?

Right now i have 17 Workspaces open and each Workspace have 4 Charts for 4 different Timeframes.

I have a hotkey that switch the Workspace for my next Instrument. (Next Workspace).

Everytime that im going to shut down the computer or close the Ninjatrader i have to close each workspace one by one because if i close NT8 with the Worskpace Open.. next time that i open it, the NT8 just freeze and crash... is sad because is not cheap the program but whatever....

My Laptop is 256gb ssd, 16gb ram, gtx 960m videocard and most of time... is only open ninjatrader, skype, etc... (not heavy programs... only that ninjatrader..)

My question is... What is better for have more faster the Ninjatrader 8..

Only one Workspace with 4 charts, and in each window timeframe chart have all my instruments in different tabs.... Or continue having open all the Workspaces and just switching between them?

I dont like to open a Workspace, and then close it... and open next one... i believe my laptop is not bad just for ninjatrader...

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello contrax,

Thank you for your post.

I would recommend our Performance Tips for your charts on the matter of improving load and general performance. You can find these at the following link: https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ance_tips2.htm

Multiple Workspaces loading should not be a large enough cost to performance to freeze the platform. A single Workspace loading the same number of instruments is likely to see the same performance as the 17 individual Workspaces.

Please let me know if you have any questions on the Performance Tips.

[contrax]

Hello contrax,

Thank you for your post.

I would recommend our Performance Tips for your charts on the matter of improving load and general performance. You can find these at the following link: https://ninjatrader.com/support/help...ance_tips2.htm

Multiple Workspaces loading should not be a large enough cost to performance to freeze the platform. A single Workspace loading the same number of instruments is likely to see the same performance as the 17 individual Workspaces.

Please let me know if you have any questions on the Performance Tips.

Already reduce the days... i use 4 different TimeFrames, and each Chart i have 300 Candles. And i use indicators.

If i only have one workspace open and the others totally closed, the NT8 works very well...

But if i have open 15 Different Workspaces and for example, every 2 hours im checking the charts with a hotkey of "next workspace" soon or laters the program start getting low and freezing...

When im going to close the NT8 i need to close one by one the Workspaces because if i let them open for the next time i open NT8,, the program just Freeze and Crash.. I think NT8 tries to open all the workspaces and all the charts at the sametime.. (just imagine 15 Workspace with 4 Charts each one and Indicators)....

But i believe my my specs of the laptop is very well... so i dont know...

The only way that i can close the program fast and re-open it.. is just closing the program.. Then move the workspace folder... open the program, close the program, move back the workspace, and reopen and thats it.... Doing this is more fast that closing one by one the workspaces...

I can buy more Ram if is requiered... i have 16gb, i can buy 32gb without problem... but the problem is... if the problem is the NT8?

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello contrax,

Thank you for your response.

Your RAM exceeds the minimum PC requirements for NinjaTrader. I would like to ask you to send me your log and trace files so I may investigate this matter further.

You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Email Support. Ensuring 'Log and Trace Files' is checked will include these files. This is checked by default.

Please please 'ATTN: Patrick H' in the subject line and reference this thread in the body of the email.

I look forward to assisting you further.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello contrax,

We did not receive your log and trace files.

Please follow the steps below to manually attach your log and trace files to an email to platformsupport[at]ninjatrader[dot]com with 'ATTN: Patrick H' in the subject line and a reference to this thread in the body of the email.

• Open your NinjaTrader folder under My Documents.
• Right click on the 'log' and 'trace' folders and select Send To> Compressed (zipped) Folder.
• Send the 2 compressed folders as attachments to your email.
• Once complete, you can delete these compressed folders.

I look forward to assisting you further.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Contrax,
I'll try to fast-track this a bit for you with some 'real life' user experience.
What you describe is the way that it is, has been in 7 and there's little you can do about it.

As there is no 'Close All Workspaces' Menu Option or Hot-Key possibility in 8 you must manually close each one.
This is either a hugely laborious mouse-clicking menu selection exercise when using multiple workspaces, or, you can slightly reduce the task by assigning a hot-key to 'Close Workspace'. You have to Save Yes/No/Cancel by mouse click, no keystroke option.

For some reason I fail to understand, and have asked with no response and is buried in the graveyard that is the 'Feature Request' euthanasia road to dismissal, Ninjatrader has elected to do away with Windows shortcuts. Every piece of software I use implements these as did NT7 but they are hidden in 8 (by some fluke of keyboard key combination I did manage to get some Windows shortcut menus to pop up so they exist but are hidden, but not reliably repeatably).

Previously in 7 I could do all you want, as I want, using macros using Windows keyboard shortcuts with built in delays between workspaces loading. So I could macro 'Open Workspace1', delay until all data loaded depending on chart timeframes, historical data to load etc etc, and when all completed automatically start 'Open Workspace 2', etc. and avoid the dreaded Not Responding. Having fine-tuned that, what took 25 minutes to complete could be done un-attended. For years. Same in reverse to shut down. Daily start and finish routine. Now, I'm back to mousing around and stuck in front of the screen waiting. The only ray of sunshine on an otherwise dismally grey start and end to the day is it loads faster in 8.

The stock reply of 'see the performance tips' won't help in any practical or meaningful sense, nor will enhancing the spec of your PC. The problem you have discovered is that if you want to close quickly there is no Close All Workspaces and closing individually is tedious and laborious requiring mouse and menu. So you have a choice of the slow way, or Exiting the program. If you Exit, when you open NT8 (as 7 before it) it tries to restore previous state, opening everything at once, bottlenecks. That either freezes it and/or Windows sees it as Not Responding/Close the Program. Either way you're into the downward spiral of restarting where it crashed and re-loading all Workspaces with same result, deleting your .workspace file, or worse corrupting files. 'Twas ever thus. Best prevented.

In my experience it is not correct to say that opening multiple workspaces concurrently should not cause freezing. (Well we could debate whether it should, but it does. It did in 7).

In my experience no amount of performance tweaking of the nature recommended will have sufficient impact to affect what you want to achieve. All good practice to follow of course, but won't have a practical benefit regarding your issue i.e. with the number of workspaces and charts you want to have open. For example, I have 9 workspaces and several timeframes etc. They're not 'heavy' with data or indicators but if I were to try to open concurrently it will crash. Guaranteed.

To manage the effort required I use macros with delays to open each workspace and allow it to finish loading before opening the next, and a 'game pad'. Helpfully the game pad shows cpu usage per core & ram. No ifs ands or buts, loading multiple workspaces concurrently when opening NT8 maxes everything out, I can watch it happening. From what you describe of your workspaces it is likely to crash your machine on loading, as you are experiencing, and thus best avoided. In my experience no matter how high spec your pc, how 'light' the contents of your charts and workspaces, how much performance tweaking you do, avoid multiple workspace opening, or a workaround strategy (open what is successful concurrently, then open & close the remainder manually).

Opening and closing individually is a problem because it is cumbersome. It's just made worse in 8 because the 'workarounds' to make it manageable using Windows shortcuts in combination with macros and delays that were available in 7 and all other software I know are hidden in 8.

Hope this helps
Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your response.

If you have a reproducible scenario of multiple "simple" workspaces causing freezing on start up and shut down then we would like to take a closer look.

I look forward to your response.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick and thanks for the offer of assistance.
I replied to the thread with the aim of sharing my experience to benefit the OP, which has been the same as s/he described, in 8, and 7 before it. I wasn't seeking help on the issue myself as I don't believe it will be a realistic expectation - to load at start up a large quantity of charts and/or workspaces (and I'm not saying it should be. Question is, if we accept it isn't, how to manage that - which is the problem the OP describes and on which s/he seeks advice).

I've attached my Workspaces. They are a Work In Progress. If, after inspection, you think it is a viable prospect to have these all load on start up and have advice on how to achieve that, such assistance would be welcome because my current way of dealing with this is not elegant, but it works.

Shutting down is less good and more cumbersome than in 7, hence if the Setup could be Exited with Workspaces open (for which it has to be able to restart with them open and not freeze), then that would be a significant benefit.


Unless running on a HAL-like PC, I'm sceptical.

Each workspace is what I would describe as 'simple' and 'system-friendly' from an NT perspective, 7 or 8
By which I mean:
- no data series has more than 30 days of historical data to load (consideration - takes cpu resources to load, occupies RAM)

- very few and simple built-in indicators (consideration - very little to compute on loading, cpu-friendly - no 3rd party volume/market profile or the like)

Having developed some 'expertise' in fine-tuning for system start up and semi-automating the process with macros in 7, I adopted the same approach in my much simpler 8 incarnation.


Although I'm aware of the benefits expected from use of multi-threading and of offloading graphics to the card and indeed 8 is quicker than 7 in this regard, each of the enclosed Workspaces takes in the region of 30 seconds to complete loading (and hence finish consuming resources).

If I were to load all 9 of these Workspaces concurrently as would be the case if NT was Exited with them Open, doing so I am sure (although have not done so, I've experienced it with less) would freeze my pc. It did with 7, I can see resource use on start-up on my LCD display as 'things happen' such as loading a workspace and max-ing out).

It is this that was reported by the OP, trying to open 17 workspaces concurrently. My experience is that that is an unrealistic expectation, which is what s/he asked for guidance on, so I shared that experience.


Unfortunately, if you have to open consecutively, as the OP described it is not easy.
My experience also.


Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your response.

I could not open my NinjaTrader 8 installation using your workspaces folder as I received several exceptions. A new installation did not correct this when still using your workspaces folder.

You are able to open these workspaces on your end? Do you receive any errors or exceptions or was that the point of these files?

I look forward to your response.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick and thanks.
No errors or exceptions my end, purpose was only for you to see if you could open all workspaces concurrently.
I've re-attached in case of cyberspace gremlins in play.
Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your response.

The workspaces continue to crash NinjaTrader on start up. So this would coincide with the behavior you were seeing. I am seeing a specific exception concerning Bars objects.

I would like to ask you to send me your log and trace files so I may investigate this matter further.

You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Email Support. Ensuring 'Log and Trace Files' is checked will include these files. This is checked by default.

Please please 'ATTN: Patrick H' in the subject line and reference this thread in the body of the email.

I look forward to assisting you further.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick and thanks.
I will send log & trace when back at my pc.
Could you clarify what you're doing when you say '(my) workspaces continue to crash NinjaTrader on start up' (I'm not querying what you're doing or why you're doing it, only to be sure we're not talking at cross-purposes).
Do you mean that simply placing my workspaces folder in a fresh install of Ninja causes it to crash during start-up, without opening any of my Workspaces? (that seems unlikely, or at least it seems incongruous with the Bars object error, as there wouldn't be any Bars).
If so, my understanding (fwiw) and experience is (because my .workspaces launches on an Untitled workspace) sometimes if Untitled is corrupted (say after a crash) it will launch on one of my WIP workspaces instead. To remedy, delete .workspaces so it creates a new Untitled & thus doesn't try to launch on a WIP workspace.
Apologies if it may seem like I'm trying to tell Support/Development how to do your job - which I'm really not, and appreciate you are best equipped to diagnose and will know what can cause such. And of course log & trace may reveal all. I'm just trying to help & respond to what you're feeding back - because I don't get a crash or Bars object error on starting Ninja with my workspace folder as sent, and I start it every day. Hence log & trace may not reveal. So begs the question why are you getting the crash & Bars object error that I'm not. My guess is something to do with for you it not launching on a 'clean' Untitled empty workspace. But mine does.
Or, is it if you open any single Workspace?
Or, is it if you open all workspaces concurrently?
L&T to follow.

To be clear & with ref to the issue reported by the OP, if I launch Ninja on an empty Untitled Workspace, I have no issues.
If I subsequently open each workspace and allow loading to complete before opening the next, I have no issues.
If I open several workspaces concurrently, it will crash.
This is what the OP opened the thread about.
Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your response.

Specifically when I open the WIP1 workspace I receive the error. So you do not have trouble opening just WIP1 alone with no other workspaces?

I look forward to your response.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick and thanks.
OK thanks for the clarification.
No, I do not have an error when I open WIP1 alone with no other workspaces.
(I think this error you are seeing may be a rabbit hole we perhaps can avoid going down and I think the answer to it may go somewhat along these lines - this error is 'something to do with' if Ninja is trying to do something for which there is no data i.e. you said you have a clean installation hence presumably no historical data loaded for the instruments in the Worskspace. I'm sure over the years in 7 also, I've 'seen this sort of thing'. Perhaps you could download historical data if you're not able to progress otherwise. Or you may have some other ideas of what goes on 'under the hood'. Read on for more...

I do not have any error when I open any of the Workspaces alone with no other workspaces open i.e. each one opens 'stand-alone' (no other workspaces open) without error

I do not have any error if I open all the workspaces sequentially, allowing each one to fully load before opening the next. At the end of doing so, I have all workspaces open, and no errors.

I do this every day, and never see the error you are seeing when opening WIP1. So my inclination would be to look to a different reason as to why you're getting it, per above. But I'm not Support/Development so its just feedback on what you're seeing/I'm seeing.

However if I were to open all workspaces concurrently, rather than sequentially allowing each to complete loading before opening the next, I would get errors, freeze, crash (although again, the error you are seeing is not typical of what happens in this situation)

If I were to Exit Ninja with them all open, on restarting Ninja it would try to open all workspaces concurrently, errors, freeze, crash.

As per the thread starter experienced.

If you are able to get one of the Workspaces open, and believe that I should be able to open them all concurrently (there are only two Workspace Setup types - 6 identical, 3 identical, but containing different Instruments - similar objective to the thread-starter) it would be so much easier than opening and waiting for each to load individually before opening the next.

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickH]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your response.

I will forward the request to open/load the workspaces one at a time on start up when multiple workspaces are open and saved during the prior shut down phase.