Overnight Margin

[collier.a15]

I am having difficulty determining overnight margin costs for products.

For example, the day trading margin is $50 for a micro contract but I would like to trade micros after the session is over. Where can I find the overnight margins for minis and micros?

Please advise

[bltdavid]

Who is your broker?

Overnight margin is only needed if you hold a position through the one hour window when no trading occurs.

When trading resumes after the one hour break, you will be back to day trading margin rules.

[marcus2300]

My personal experience is that day trading margins are only a good idea if you watch your screen from open till close of the trade.
If you would like to keep an open position while you are sleeping it is a bad idea to trade on daytrade margins.
Trading micros on 50$ margin is insane. Especially with the actual volatility. You will wipe out your account in 1 trade if a 10 points move against you happens. We have the last month 100 point moves in less than 15 minutes. Because of the volatility you have to put your stop far away or you are already stopped out in the first minute you open a trade.
Many brokers don't give you that 50$ margin, you first have to proof you can control the risk by trading with a higher margin.

I am daytrading for over 2 decades and I have seen a lot of wipe outs from "traders". Not only wipe outs of their trading account, but also total wipe outs (losing everything including their house and their partner).

The fact that you have difficulties determing overnight margin costs for products confirms to me that you are far away from being a professional.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello collier.a15,

Welcome to the NinjaTrader forums!

I recommend discussing margin requirements with your broker.

If you were wanting to contact the NinjaTrader Brokerage, they can be reached at brokeragesupport [at] ninjatrader [dot] com, or 1.800.496.1683.

https://ninjatrader.com/ContactUs

[marcus2300]

My personal experience is that day trading margins are only a good idea if you watch your screen from open till close of the trade.
If you would like to keep an open position while you are sleeping it is a bad idea to trade on daytrade margins.
Trading micros on 50$ margin is insane. Especially with the actual volatility. You will wipe out your account in 1 trade if a 10 points move against you happens. We have the last month 100 point moves in less than 15 minutes. Because of the volatility you have to put your stop far away or you are already stopped out in the first minute you open a trade.
Many brokers don't give you that 50$ margin, you first have to proof you can control the risk by trading with a higher margin.

I am daytrading for over 2 decades and I have seen a lot of wipe outs from "traders". Not only wipe outs of their trading account, but also total wipe outs (losing everything including their house and their partner).

The fact that you have difficulties determing overnight margin costs for products confirms to me that you are far away from being a professional.

This is what I wanted to explain:
Today market moved between 7:00 and 7:24. If you use a $50 margin for trading MES (micro E mini) this is how it would look if you would be short:



Within 1 minute a loss of 77.50% of your account
Within 3 minutes total wipe out and you should still pay $182.50 to get out of debt.
After 24 minutes you would lose 16 times the $50 margin. You should still pay $755 per contract to get out of debt.

If you would be long you would make a lot of money. But don't forget that over 90% of daytraders seem to lose their money, so how big is the posibility that you would be long?

[matthewmcreadie]

Why cant any of you clever jack asses answer the question simply ?

He asked what is the overnight margin req. for 1 micro , since it is not on the website, i could not find the info myself

Ninjatrader Team, would you like to provide the updated info since mciros came online ? I know you have a link to a pdf with everything

Because i would like to know too

Regards

[matthewmcreadie]

collier.a15

Found the pdf

https://ninjatrader.com/Margins-Position-Management

For holding overnight MES , you will need to post Initial Margin $1320 + Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract,

[bltdavid]

Why cant any of you clever jack asses answer the question simply ?

Maybe because,
The OP is asking a generic brokerage question on a platform support forum.
The OP is asked to identify his broker, OP never responds further.
When it is suggested OP ask his broker specifically, OP never responds further.
When it is suggested OP contact NinjaTrader broker directly,
-- OP is given the contact email address
-- OP is given the contact phone number
-- OP is given the contact web site

You do know that margins are a broker-specific thing.
You do know that margins are not a static thing, they can and do change.

If we assume that OP's broker was NinjaTrader Brokerage (a fair assumption)
then it is also fair to assume OP's inquiry was satisfied by NT support's answer,
which suggested 3 specific ways to directly contact them.

But just because I was curious, I spent just a couple of minutes ...
After looking around NinjaTrader.com "Futures Broker" webpage, I found this,

https://ninjatrader.com/PDF/ninjatrader_futures_contract_details.pdf

which as of May 9th shows the same figures you provided

But at the top of that pdf, it says, 'During periods of high volatility, please visit
Order Desk Updates for current margin levels', which can provide additional
information. Obviously, traders who use NTB should bookmark that webpage
and consult it regularly, esp during this period of unprecedented volatility caused
by the pandemic.

That is why other clever folks did not provide an exact answer, because the
correct and appropriate answer is to directly contact your broker, as was
the suggestion provided by NT support.

If your specific broker (which OP never identified) has a webpage with the exact
margin figures, then great. But not all brokers do that.

[marcus2300]

collier.a15

Found the pdf

https://ninjatrader.com/Margins-Position-Management

For holding overnight MES , you will need to post Initial Margin $1320 + Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract,

For you, the clever jack ass: try to read and understand correctly. You are apparently not as clever as you think.

• Initial Margin $1320 is margin to open a position of 1 contract MES.
• Maintenance Margin $1200 per contract is the minimum margin you should have to avoid a margin call.
• So if your position is losing 24 points per contract MES, you should add money on your account.

Try to stay polite or nobody will answer your questions anymore.

[Mokaru Zen]

Who is your broker?

Overnight margin is only needed if you hold a position through the one hour window when no trading occurs.

When trading resumes after the one hour break, you will be back to day trading margin rules.

Hello NinjaTraderSupport.

Can you confirm the above statement?

I would like to Day Trade in the afternoon in Asia time, that is during overnight session USA time. Obviously it is not my sleeping time. I open and close trade within that session. So in this case only Day Trading Margin applies?

I think it is quite reasonable, the volatility is less during overnight session (I am not saying spike during Asia time will not happen) and we are trading, not sleeping.

Please confirm.

Thank you.
Mokaru

[bltdavid]

Can you confirm the above statement?

Start by devouring everything here and here.

Good info here, too.

I'll let NT Support handle your specific questions.

[bltdavid]

I think your confusion lies in that the terms 'overnight margin' and 'overnight session' are not related.

The 'overnight margin' (quoted on a per instrument basis) is the amount that must be in your account
to hold one contract of that instrument past the close of that instrument's market. (Btw, I've always
assumed that 'overnight margin' is more of a nickname, and the real term being 'initial margin'. Indeed,
cmegroup.com does not define 'overnight margin'.)

The 'overnight session' is associated with the ETH (Electronic Trading Hours) session.

Note carefully:
Overnight margin (er, I mean, initial margin) is not defined in terms of the overnight session.

[Mokaru Zen]

Thanks bltdavid for the information and explanation. I just wish those weblinks give examples. I can of course test out using Micro-Emini during overnight session and see whether Ninjatrader Margin page showing deduction by $50 or by initial margin. I still need the confirmation from Ninja Support. As I want to trade E-mini eventually.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello All,

Please keep the forum pleasant and refrain from name calling or negative comments.

For any information about margin requirements, please direct these inquiries to your broker.

[bltdavid]

Please keep the forum pleasant and refrain from name calling or negative comments.

What?
Where did you get that from?

Seems like you're reading way too much into my comments, if you have
perceived any name calling or negative comments ... ah, wait, I see.

You mean those other comments from almost 2 years ago?

A little late ... I think.