Suggestions for bettering your software

[pthomas]

Hi Ninja Trader,

I have been a lifetime member since 2011 or so. I have noticed that my broker statements and ninja end of day results are not the same. Can you folks work on better integration? I have selected the correct feature under the under the account.

Also, can you implement automatic updates to instrument lists? As well as automatic updates for the platform?

We do not care if the instrument is expired. We only care that the right instrument is there to trade. This should be more automated than a manual process.

Also, unsure if any of you folks actually trade, but I think it would be wise to put together a committee of traders to tell you what you folks could do better.

I know traders that are dropping your platform due to the lack of support and willingness to implement common tools that Sierra Charts, Multicharts, and others have in common, as well as some of the automated functions.

Please don't take this as a stick; I think Ninja Trader is doing many things right but could be so much better than what it currently is today. You folks should be putting TradeStation face down in the dirt.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

First, thanks for using NinjaTrader and thanks for the feedback! We always appreciate when our users let us know what we could do better. Many of the changes/additions to NinjaTrader 8 are based on user feedback like you've provided today.

The brokerage statement should always be relied upon as your primary form of account reporting. There are many ways in which the reporting within NinjaTrader can become out-of-sync or inaccurate compared to your brokerage statement, so the platform should be considered secondary. If you describe in more detail what exactly you're noticing is not matching, I may be able to provide further troubleshooting.

We typically do not force anything on users automatically. For rollovers specifically, two examples where automatic rollovers would be detrimental are in cases which users do not prefer to rollover on NinjaTrader's roll dates. Also, some users prefer to trade a contact which isn't the current front month. The quickest way to rollover all windows in NinjaTrader 8 would be to go to Tools > Database Management > Rollover futures instruments > Rollover.

You may find this rollover indicator helpful as well:

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/local_links.php?action=sendtofriend&catid=7&linkid=905

With that said, I'll submit a feature request for automation of rollovers and platform updates. The tracking number is SFT-1285 for automated rollovers. SFT-240 for automated platform updates.

What features in particular are missing from NinjaTrader that you believe are critical?

[pthomas]

Thanks, Patrick. I see you offer fib tools, but don't offer a fib fan or an arc. I had one created, but I am sure some users would like that would like that tool too. I guess, be more in line with mainstream platforms. If there are tools that are on a TradeStation, e-signal, you might want to consider looking at their platform. NinjaTrader is great because you folks allow people to code, but people that do not rely on coding or a ton of indicators for their trading, you are missing the other market of people. Also, even the people in the ecosystem might be coders, but some are not as good as others, so the quality varies. Having a consistent quality would be nice, with the ecosystem, you do not know what you’re going to get. I have had things that worked great, and things not work so great.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Thanks for the clarifications.

I've submitted a feature request for expanded Fibonacci drawing tools to the Development Team.

• SFT-1189 Fibonacci Fan
• SFT-3417 Fibonacci Arc

[brucerobinson]

Hello pthomas & PatrickG,
Re: rollovers, automated or not.
If I understand pthomas' comment, it was about automatically updating Instrument Lists, not about automating rollovers, which was the reply/issue addressed? Of course, rollover in mind may have behind pthomas' comment about updating Instrument Lists.

Looking at the thread https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...light=SFT-1285
doesn't help, as again the thread (now over 2 years old) doesn't actually address the specific issue the OP of that thread raises.

I started a thread and got the same - the 'answer' was to a different scenario than the one that traders face and want to have addressed.

There doesn't appear to be any progress on this feature request, which seems to suggest NT don't support pursuing it.

Thing is, the more I see these responses, the less sure I am Ninja understand what the 'issue' is, at least the one I am interested in, and the one raised by the OP of SFT-1285.

Patrick, can you kindly explain what SFT-1285 is? The description 'automate rollovers' isn't the issue the OP of that thread raises. It is also not the issue I have raised. The add-on coded for 8 from Brett's 7 Rollover button also isn't the issue I've raised previously either.

The answers around this topic invariably seem to be tackling manual rollover at a date different to Ninja's rollover date, or justifying not automating rollover on the basis 'we don't force users to rollover, we give them a choice as to whether to do so', and 'we don't force our dates on users, users can choose when to do so'.

That is fine (for me), and may be why 1285 is still not implemented if it is 'automating rollovers'.

Patrick, you refer to a couple of scenarios e.g. the Ninja date has been reached, but the trader wants to trade the 'old' contract and therefore doesn't want to be forced by automatic rollover on to the new one. The current implementation allows that User-choice. Automation would take away that choice. Understood. Which may be a reason SFT-1285 hasn't progressed if SFT-1285 is 'fully automated no opt-out rollover'. Fair enough.
You say some users prefer to trade a contract that isn't the front month. Again, true. And Users can.
But that isn't the issue.
Brett's tool addresses 'an issue' insofar as it shows the rollover date and makes manual rollover more accessible should the user wish to elect to rollover at a different date (or at least that is how I understand it, I haven't used it as it doesn't address the issue I am concerned with)

But that's not the issue/scenario I believe needs to be addressed, but none of the replies, including yours here (with respect) ever address or describe.

I've posted scenarios in other threads and get the same 'stock reply' of how to rollover manually at a date other than Ninja's rollover date. I know how to do that. But it misses the point. And posting the instructions may suggest the issue isn't understood.

Kind regards,
Bruce

[billywantstoknow]

quote "The brokerage statement should always be relied upon as your primary form of account reporting. There are many ways in which the reporting within NinjaTrader can become out-of-sync or inaccurate compared to your brokerage statement, so the platform should be considered secondary."

don't agree with this response as it does not make any sense seeing as how NT has chosen to be the platform and broker and thus should NEVER be out of "sync"

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

SFT-1285's title is "Implement hands-off auto-rollover feature".

I did misread or overlook the fact that pthomas specifically states 'instrument lists'. This is not explicitly defined in SFT-1285. Thanks for pointing this out, Bruce.

I'll submit a feature request for a built-in way to address expired contracts in instrument lists. The tracking ID is SFT-3418.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

don't agree with this response as it is NT has chosen to be the platform and broker and thus should NEVER be out of "sync"

The technical reason behind this is that NinjaTrader does not have integrated order routing/account reporting underlying technology right now. NinjaTrader Brokerage utilizes CQG or Rithmic underlying technology for example.

The NinjaTrader platform can connect to many brokers (not just NinjaTrader Brokerage) and therefore makes use of the technology provided by that broker. While it is a great capability to be able to connect to multiple brokers, one of the limitations involved is potential Account Reporting discrepancies.

If you'd like for us to find out why you may be experiencing a report which does not sync with your brokerage report, please contact us via email at PlatformSupport[AT]NinjaTrader[DOT[com and we'll be happy to investigate further.

[billywantstoknow]

sounds like excuse putting problem on user VS. you solving the issue

The technical reason behind this is that NinjaTrader does not have integrated order routing/account reporting underlying technology right now. NinjaTrader Brokerage utilizes CQG or Rithmic underlying technology for example.

The NinjaTrader platform can connect to many brokers (not just NinjaTrader Brokerage) and therefore makes use of the technology provided by that broker. While it is a great capability to be able to connect to multiple brokers, one of the limitations involved is potential Account Reporting discrepancies.

If you'd like for us to find out why you may be experiencing a report which does not sync with your brokerage report, please contact us via email at PlatformSupport[AT]NinjaTrader[DOT[com and we'll be happy to investigate further.

Hi Patrick no need for that was just perusing the forum and saw your response which seemingly puts the user at the bad end and up to them, except you are the ones that have the platform and should have some sort of responsibility, but as you have addressed it's not your problem!

quote "The technical reason behind this is that NinjaTrader does not have integrated order routing/account reporting underlying technology right now" WHY?? Did no one think of this for NT8-Don't misconstrue my reaction, like your platform but, it's like it's still a BETA version and yall are not in any rush to complete it, just goes on and on?
edit now this is a punch, sorry maybe your waiting for a third party to offer this for a fee--LOL
Thanks

[brucerobinson]

"SFT-1285's title is "Implement hands-off auto-rollover feature".
I thought that might be so. And I understand the reasons, as for example you have given that this may not be desirable - at least not without override. the current rollover implantation has merit, IMHO, for the reasons you give.

I'll submit a feature request for a built-in way to address expired contracts in instrument lists.
My experience is that this is automated and works. i.e. once the rollover date in the Contract Definition field in the Instrument is reached, and you click Rollover, everything works pretty slickly.

I would say a shortcoming of the current system is that there is no alert (don't get me started Patrick!) to tell you that there is a contract to be rolled over, you have to manually look in Manage Database. I know, I have a diary, it doesn't happen very often etc etc but it just seems obvious.... They are there ready to use the rollover feature, but who knew....

And that, is the 'knub' of what the OP of SFT-1285 talks about, what I have raised and what pthomas talks about (I believe).

Here I am approaching a rollover date, but not there yet. Volume moves from the current contract to the next. How do I know? So the institutions (they are the volume) are mainly on the next contract. But I don't know. No message has come up to say the rollover date is upon us. It isn't. Even if it was, there would be no message. with the current system anyhow, Then I notice the change in charts. So I check volume in Time and Sales or Market Analyser. But the system hasn't brought it to my attention. Even when I've seen that volume has shifted, I can't use the rollover system because it won't be in there yet. The date hasn't been reached. I can't easily add the next month, because it isn't in my Instrument List.

It makes me wonder ig anyone (at Ninja) has actually been in this situation and experienced/understands.


You're trading the contract close to rollover date and volume shifts. You've no idea. Finding out isn't easy. When you've found out the current system 'conspires against you'. That is the issue as far as I'm concerned. It is what the OP of SFT-1285 raised. The answer was (wrongly, imho) translated into a feature request for fully automated, and there are good reasons against that. Hence it is still outstanding.


But has anyone looked at how to deal with a volume-based rollover early, and how to deal with it with the current system? With the current system there is no notification even for date, let alone volume. If you notice volume, then the rollover system doesn't appear in Database Management to allow you to use it until the date is reached. You can't select the next Month contract in your Instrument List because it won't be populated with the next contract until the date has been reached etc etc.


Now, if you know volume has rolled, you can then go into the Date field of the instrument and change it. Then, the contract will appear in the rollover feature, hit the button and voila, all is resolved and it works well.


But digging around to change the date in the Instrument is hardly slick. And you have to know all this in advance and there is no explanation.


What it needs is an easier or automatic way of comparing volume of the current and next contracts, an alert when latter exceeds former, and a user-selected choice to change the date 'ahead' of the one in the Contract spec. So just as a contract appears to be rolled over when date is reached, which you can elect to choose, or not, when volume on the next contract exceeds the current one, it appears in Database Management to be rolled over by volume - if you choose to. Then, today's date entered into the Contract Definition field and Bob's your Uncle, Instrument Lists update etc etc. Same system just manually activated by a Button Accept to put today's date in (because it has rolled by volume) and it rolls using the same system already built.

It is what you have to do at the moment, once you've figured it all out and delve into the dark underbelly of opening Instrument Properties etc,

It is not about forcing or not Users to change contracts by using automated systems. It is about the cumbersome nature of changing by volume and that an unintended consequence of the current rollover system to the extent it actually obscures this more so.
(because only current contracts appear in instrument lists etc)

Currently I have to maintain a Market Analyser list of the current and next contract. I have to manually add the next contract which isn't in the Instrument List (because of the new system). I can't put an Alert on Market Analyser so that when the new contract volume exceeds the current it alerts me.


The responses to this issue tend to be 'we don't force you off a contract on to the next', you don't HAVE to roll over. We don't automate because some people don't want to be forced to roll'.
That's NOT the issue. What is the common use case for the retail trader? Wanting to stay on the contract that no-one else is still trading - there may be reasons but they will be few and far between for the retail trader, not the common case, or wanting to get onto the contract that the Institutions have switched volume to, ahead of the 'Rollover Date'? The question is 'have you experienced using NT, incl. the new rollover, when volume rolls early and you want to do so also'. And everything around this, like monitoring volume? Changing the date? Etc.

Thread hijacked, but if this wasn't understood, hopefully it may be now.

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Thanks for the feedback, Bruce.

The indicator I provided a link to in post #2 addresses some of your concerns regarding lack of notification of rollover.

NinjaTrader is meant to be customized for your needs, not to have a pre-determined idea of what we think the end user wants. This is why many specific features either aren't automated or are considered add-ons. You mentioned several ways that the platform can be configured to monitor the volume in case it shifts to a new contact before NinjaTrader's built-in rollover date is reached.

The Development Team is aware of the feature requests and feedback/detail provided by all users in this thread.