Ray Global Drg Obj appears to be incorrectly drawn?

[brucerobinson]

Hello,
Please see attached screenshots of 15min (on which Ray was drawn) and 1min (on which reproduced using Global DO).

Note toward the end of bars, above line on 15min/below on 1min. Also, intersects with HOD line on 5min, later on 1min.

My Ray Drawing Tool is set to Global by Default (i.e. I am not applying Global after drawing)
Both Charts have snap mode Bars

The line is created on the 5min

If I draw, on the 1min chart, a Ray from the HOD green dotted line 1.0090 to the top of the lower highs at 1.0068 (i.e. no bar penetrates the line), the corresponding global line on the 5min isn't faithfully reproduced either - the line on the 15min is penetrated by a bar.
Kind regards,
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_EricB]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your post. What version of NinjaTrader are you using? Please provide the entire version number. This can be found under Help -> About (Example: 8.0.X.0)


Who are you connected to? This is displayed in green on lower left corner of the Control Center window.

We look forward to assisting further.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Eric & thanks.
15.1
AMP
Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_EricB]

Thank you for your reply.

To confirm, is 1.0090 and 1.0068 the reported values of the x/y axis via the drawing object properties?

[brucerobinson]

Hello Eric and thanks.
No, apologies, that may have only served to confuse and you may want to ignore.
What I was giving was another example - if I draw a new line on the 1min from 1.0090 to and beyond the 1.0068, that same line on the 15min is 'not the same' insofar as it does not rest on the top of the green bar at 1.0068, it's a tick lower, intersecting the bar tail. However it may be that there was nothing printing at that time on the 6S or some such esoteric reason, above my pay-grade to understand. See attached in case it is relevant.

The first example I gave seems rather 'more odd' however.

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_JamesG]

Hello Brucerobinson,

In order to assist you, I need some clarification on your inquiry.

Are you drawing these lines on the chart or are they drawn by an indicator?

Are you asking why the two charts print bars differently?

Do you receive an error on screen? Are there errors on the Log tab of the Control Center? If so, what do these errors report?

I look forward to your reply.

[brucerobinson]

Hello Janes and thanks.

"Are you drawing these lines on the chart" - I draw one line, the corresponding ones on other charts are drawn courtesy of using the Global Drawing Object function
No indicators are involved in the drawing of the lines

"Are you asking why the two charts print bars differently?"
The two charts don't print bars differently? (other than insofar as they are different timeframes, obviously)

"Do you receive an error on screen? Are there errors on the Log tab of the Control Center?"
No.

From my original post :
"Note toward the end of bars, above line on 15min/below on 1min. Also, intersects with HOD line on 5min, later on 1min."

The two lines are intersecting the price bars at different locations i.e. the gradients of the two supposedly same lines must not be the same, or the data series must not be the same? The run and rise of the line should appear the same on a 15min and 1min chart, should it not? And thus always be in the same place relative to any bar on either chart, notwithstanding that one 15min bar will have 15 bars equivalent on the 1 min chart.

Per my "Note - " above, if you look at the bars toward the end of the data series on the screenshots I sent initially, you can see that the Rays intersect those bars/the data series differently. The bars are the same on each chart (notwithstanding 15min bars vs 1min bars)


I hope that's now clear?

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_JamesG]

Hello brucerobinson,

Please send me a screenshot of the drawing objects properties window for both drawing objects for each chart, the 1 minute and 5 minute.

You may access this window by left-clicking the line to select it.
Then right-click the line and select properties.

To send a screenshot with Windows 7 or newer I would recommend using Window's Snipping Tool.

Click here for instructions

Alternatively to send a screenshot press Alt + PRINT SCREEN to take a screenshot of the selected window. Then go to Start--> Accessories--> Paint, and press CTRL + V to paste the image. Lastly, save as a jpeg file and send the file as an attachment.

Click here for detailed instruction

I look forward to your reply.

[brucerobinson]

Hello James and thanks.
I delete all Drawing Objects at the end of every day, thus no longer have the lines on my charts from which to obtain Properties.

Next time I observe similar (this is not the first) I'll capture Properties also.

Or preferably someone else will meantime.

Thanks.
Kind regards,
Bruce

[eDanny]

The rise and run cannot be the same on a 15 min. chart and 1 min. chart as you pointed out to yourself.
"notwithstanding that one 15min bar will have 15 bars equivalent on the 1 min chart."
The rise would stay the same but the run is totally different. If you trig it out you can see the hypotenuse would be at completely different angles and therefore interact with bars included in the run (X axis) differently. Simple math when you think about it.
Look at it this way, draw a line from two 1 min. bars that are included in 1 15 min. bar. Wouldn't it be a vertical line on the 15 min. chart?

[brucerobinson]

Hello eDanny & James & Eric and thanks.

Note that my Subject Line has the deliberate use of 'appears (to me) to be...' and ends with a '?', for which read 'is it? and if not please help me to understand'.
Rather than 'it's doing something wrong, I say so'!

eDanny, I'm not sure I was clear in my description of what I intended to communicate.
Please see attached images for elaboration. Perhaps you didn't realise I am using Equidistant Bar Spacing. However, as you'll see in my second attachment/explanation, that doesn't actually 'matter'

First attachment is: Top Panel 2 contains 2 data series 15min (blue bars) and 1min (red/green bars), Middle Panel 1min and Bottom Panel 15min.

The Ray is a single Ray using Global Drawing Objects to create the same Ray on all charts.

The different time bars 'overlay' in the top panel and the price structure is effectively the same. (I know there is a way somehow to make the 15mins bars wider so that one bar 'engulfs' the equivalent 15 x 1min bars, but a step too far). The Ray is 'the same' on each chart, touching the same highs

Second attachment is: same 1min series and same globally drawn Ray. I have changed the X-axis (i.e. Run) and doing so does not change the points at which it touches the highs. Yes, the angle and length of the hypotenuse change, but not the points of touch. And that's what I would expect.

However, if you now look back at my original posted Attachments, you can see how these differ. Price does very different things relative to the Ray toward (and only toward) the end of the chart, clearly running below the Ray in one and above in the other.

What I have attached here is what I see every day on numerous chart on different timescales - all 'in unison'. And then very occasionally I see what I posted to begin this thread.

And I don't understand why. I'm not saying that Global Drawing Objects is drawing the Ray 'incorrectly', I'm saying occasionally I see as posted, don't understand, can anyone understand/explain?

I've just had a not-dissimilar experience where global lines were drawing 'backwards in time' on some charts. There was an explanation and is fixed in R16. But took an age (of my time) to figure out what was happening and get answered.

I was hoping someone could just tell me 'ah yes, that's correct, there's nothing wrong, it's because...….', or, 'ah, yes, I see, that's unexpected, we'll investigate....'

The only other 'wildcard' I can imagine, for my originally posted charts, is that there are data points missing on one of the data series, thus affecting horizontal distance printed for supposedly the same amount of time, thus affecting the line gradient.

Phew.

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_JamesG]

Hello brucerobinson,
Thank you for your reply.

In order to assist you please send me your workspace, and database folders so I may test on my end.
Please send me your log and trace files so that I may look into what occurred.

You can do this by going to the Control Center-> Help-> Mail to Platform Support

Ensuring 'Log and Trace Files' as well as 'database' and 'workspace' is checked will include these files. This is checked by default.

Please note that is is for James by placing attention James in the header.

I look forward to your email.

[brucerobinson]

To close this out for completeness & maybe help others coming across this issue.

This behaviour seems to be to do with how NT8 references the location of line anchor points, which is 'by bar'.

There is further information that may be helpful here https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...d.php?t=110674

James remoted in to my PC, assessed the settings and then spoke to Development for some time, coming back with what he described as 'rather esoteric explanation/behaviour' and an emailed response of "The time stamp of a 10 seconds bar is from zero seconds to 9 seconds and a 3-minute charts bars would be zero seconds to 179 seconds.
This can cause the bars to display different even though the data in the bars would be the same."

I can't say I understand how that explains the behaviour, nor that that makes it 'acceptable' that this is how NT8 draws Global Rays on different time charts. It will no doubt attract the ubiquitous 'Expected behaviour in NT8' tag.

What may be helpful to others to know, is that (to do with the above-quoted statement no doubt - I say statement because it is that only, it does not give an explanation) if the anchor points are drawn on the higher timeframe chart, because of 'how they work', how Global drawing objects works, and because of the above statement, the line on the lower time frame chart may appear differently as I have reported.

Similar to the thread I have linked to, if I draw a Ray on one timeframe I expect that line to be replicated on a different timeframe. There have been various ideas postulated as to why this isn't or can't be so, run and rise, compression of the chart time frame etc which are not the cause of this.

What seems to be the case is that the anchor points need to be drawn on the faster chart else there is a danger (not necessarily so) that anchor points drawn on the slower chart will not result in faithful reproduction with respect to future time and price by Global Drawing on the faster chart. That is the occasional behaviour I observed/reported per variously attached screenshots.

To demonstrate that this is so, I drew a Global Drawing Object Ray on the 3min chart and its counterpart on the 10sec chart did not match (price structure etc on both charts did, but points of intersection of the Ray ahead in time of the anchor points were different). for the avoidance of doubt I am talking about ahead in time of where the anchor points were drawn, which were historical, not drawing anchor points ahead of current time, in the future, where bars do not yet exist.

I then did this the opposite way around (creating the Ray on the 10sec chart rather than the 3min), and its counterpart on the 3min chart matched that drawn on the 10sec in gradient, points of intersection with price/time etc.

So, the Global Drawing Object Ray that results on the charts other than that on which it is created may differ from the original, depending on which chart you draw it on and on which chart you are looking at the 'Global Drawing Object drawn one'

That, to my mind, shouldn't be, even if it is expected behaviour in NT8.

The effect of this 'difference', is magnified the farther out in time the Ray extends, the closer together the anchor points, and the steeper the gradient. Which is why sometimes there is a difference visible, and sometimes not.

Unfortunately this conspires against a practical workaround - you want to draw the anchor points on the faster timeframe to counteract the issue, and make the anchor points as far apart as possible. But the faster chart displays less data series per physical measure of x-axis (screen distance), by definition, hence to do so requires manually scrolling the chart and moving the anchor point along piecemeal. Very cumbersome.

Or at least that is what I believe I have observed....

Hope this may help someone, or if incorrect, please correct/elaborate/suggest.
Kind regards,

[brucerobinson]

I wonder if this in R19 "

13724

Fixed

DrawingTool

Anchor values changed when attaching to all charts

" is resolution. :-)

[NinjaTrader_Kate]

Hello brucerobinson,

Thank you for your post.

From what I can tell this doesn't look like it's exactly the same as what you reported. I would update to R19 and test, however; if you're still running into this in R19, please let me know and we can get a request to the developers to take a look at it.

Please let us know if we may be of further assistance to you.