NINJATRADER 8 Based New APPLE Mac-Mini Chip M1

[JAVIER LLORDEN]

Good morning,

Please I need advice and help on the following issue:

These days I am thinking about buying a new computer, in particular, the recent Apple Mac-Mini with M1 Rosetta chip.
https://support.apple.com/mac/mac-mini

According to the features that I have been able to know (I am not an expert in the computer world), it does not run under the Intel environment and its architecture is different, the so-called Rosetta, which from now on Apple will develop and implement in the next few years.

The Developers are working on their programs to adapt to this new M1 Rosetta protocol with what is called: native application for this system and I wanted to ask first:
Can you confirm if Ninjatrader V8 runs now under these new conditions. And if in near future it has date to do so ?.
If both answers are: Negative.

A 2nd question comes to my mind:
There is the alternative, I think many traders have, to virtualize an Apple computer, to have Windows environment by 2 ways: Boot Camp and Parallels. And my question is: does the virtualization option to have NT8, in this new pc, lose performance or efficiency with this alternative?
My conclusion that I want to express is:

My wish is with this new Apple computer, to have only 1 program exclusively: NT8 to be able to develop my personal trading and no other program. Even if it means " missing out " on the rest of the potential of the pc.

Please, if you find any other aspect that I need to know and I have not asked due to my lack of knowledge, please inform me as well.

I hope you can expand on these issues and answer me.

Thank you very much for your help.
Best regards, Javier.

[ahelton]

As for your first question, I'm unsure. I've been hearing the same rumors about it being able to natively run Windows programs but I don't know if it runs all Windows programs so maybe someone else can explain that better.
I do know the answer to your second question though. There are a few different ways to virtualize a windows environment in Apple. I work with a few people who are Apple fanatics and they love Parallels as it seems to be lighter and responsive. I'm sure there would have to be some sort of effect on performance however, so it depends on the type of trading you would want to do on it. As long as you hold your trades for more than just very quick second scalps, I would imagine you would be fine.

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello Javier,

NinjaTrader 7 and NinjaTrader 8 are Windows applications which rely on the .NET Framework to operate and the .NET Framework is only available on Windows Operating System and DOES NOT run on the Mac Operating System.

While we do not officially support running NinjaTrader on a Mac; we have had many clients run NinjaTrader on Mac hardware. We have specific installation instructions for Parallels and VMWare Fusion which will allow you to run NinjaTrader on your Mac. Below you will find instructions specific to the available options of running NinjaTrader on a Mac computer with the virtualization tools. Please note that Windows is sold separately from BootCamp, Parallels, and VMWare.

Mac Installation - Configuring NinjaTrader for Parallels

When installing NinjaTrader on a Mac using Parallels, users will need to ensure that the following steps have been taken prior to the installation of NinjaTrader.

1. Start Parallels and select your virtual machine
2. Press the "Configure" button on the top
3. Under "Options", select "Sharing"
4. Uncheck "Share Mac" under "Share Mac User Folders with Windows"
5. Press "OK" and start the virtual machine

Mac Installation - Configuring NinjaTrader for VMWare Fusion:

When configuring NinjaTrader on a Mac running VMWare, users will need to ensure that the following steps have been taken prior to the installation of NinjaTrader.

1. Start VMWare and select your virtual machine
2. Press the "Settings" button on the bottom
3. Under "System Settings", select "Sharing"
4. Uncheck "Documents" from the "Mirrored Folders" list
5. Close the "Settings" window and start the virtual machine

Mac Installation - Configuring NinjaTrader for Apple Boot Camp:

When configuring NinjaTrader on a Mac running Apple Boot Camp, there are no special instructions needed.


Running a virtualization program will have some effect as ahelton mentions. If you experience performance issues, please see the performance tips at the link below.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/helpGuides/nt8/?performance_tips2.htm

When using Parallels, make sure to allocate enough RAM for Windows. You can find instructions to allocate RAM in Parallels at the publicly available link below.

http://download.parallels.com/desktop/v7/update2/docs/en/Parallels%20Desktop%20User's%20Guide/33645.htm

The minimum RAM requirement for NinjaTrader 8 is 2 GB RAM, 8 GB RAM is recommended. The general rule applies: the more RAM, the better.

[JAVIER LLORDEN]

As for your first question, I'm unsure. I've been hearing the same rumors about it being able to natively run Windows programs but I don't know if it runs all Windows programs so maybe someone else can explain that better.
I do know the answer to your second question though. There are a few different ways to virtualize a windows environment in Apple. I work with a few people who are Apple fanatics and they love Parallels as it seems to be lighter and responsive. I'm sure there would have to be some sort of effect on performance however, so it depends on the type of trading you would want to do on it. As long as you hold your trades for more than just very quick second scalps, I would imagine you would be fine.

Thank you very much Ahelton for writing to me and your advice on using Prallels as the most appropriate way.
I will keep in mind the performance issue you write to me.
Anyway, my style of trading is on 5 minute charts on the Mini-ES and I don't usually make more than 3 trades in a day's session.
I wish you health and Best regards

[JAVIER LLORDEN]

[QUOTE=NinjaTrader_Jason;n1147752]

Hello Jason,

Thank you very much for your complete information on the 3 ways to virtualize an Apple computer and also on the NT8 performance tips.
I think from what I have been able to understand the best option is: Parallels.

So, that means buying a computer with the maximum RAM possibility.

I think for now I have the information to be able to start my way of my purchase.

Thanks for all and best regards.

[SDF02]

6 months on, I wonder whether, by now, there is more experience with using a M1 MacBook Air with Parallels (and Windows 11).
Does anybody run this configuration? How is it working out? Thanks.

I'm thinking to buy the new MacBook Air, but if NT8 doesn't run on it properly, that would be a show stopper.

[sdp1969]

Hi Javier,
I am a mac user and have been trading with NT for about 10 years. If you virtualize Windows 10 with Parallels, you will get a massive hit in the speed of your computer. I have a MacBook pro with i9 8core intel with 64GB RAM and it is still not fast enough to run two operating systems AND NinjaTrader AND my strategy. For me anyway I HAVE to run bootcamp to run my strategy effectively. The problem with the M1 and the M1X that is supposed to come out next month..there is no bootcamp. The question is...will the new processor be SO fast that Parallels can run effectively. Some are saying that the Geekbench score for the higher core M1X is going to be over 14000 which is HUGE. To put in perspective, my mac running windows by bootcamp has a Geekbench of 7500. So with a doubling of processing speed, will Parallels be an option? I sure hope so...but we will see.

[JAVIER LLORDEN]

6 months on, I wonder whether, by now, there is more experience with using a M1 MacBook Air with Parallels (and Windows 11).
Does anybody run this configuration? How is it working out? Thanks.

I'm thinking to buy the new MacBook Air, but if NT8 doesn't run on it properly, that would be a show stopper.

Hi SDF02 thanks for replying to my topic from some time ago.
I confirm that I have not been able to confirm if the Apple M1 will work correctly with the V8 NT I have not purchased the new Mini-Pc as of today.
Best regards.

[JAVIER LLORDEN]

Hi Javier,
I am a mac user and have been trading with NT for about 10 years. If you virtualize Windows 10 with Parallels, you will get a massive hit in the speed of your computer. I have a MacBook pro with i9 8core intel with 64GB RAM and it is still not fast enough to run two operating systems AND NinjaTrader AND my strategy. For me anyway I HAVE to run bootcamp to run my strategy effectively. The problem with the M1 and the M1X that is supposed to come out next month..there is no bootcamp. The question is...will the new processor be SO fast that Parallels can run effectively. Some are saying that the Geekbench score for the higher core M1X is going to be over 14000 which is HUGE. To put in perspective, my mac running windows by bootcamp has a Geekbench of 7500. So with a doubling of processing speed, will Parallels be an option? I sure hope so...but we will see.

Hi sdp1969 thanks for replying to my topic. I didn't read your reply until today as I didn't know that you had added comment to my topic that I started last March.
Thank you very much for providing me with so much detail on the subject.
I can tell you that my idea was to buy this M1 and wait for a possible M1X or M2.
I use an iMac and with Bootcamp for about 6 years.

Now with this new Mini-PC my desire was to be able to buy it because it can be easy to move this pc for various reasons such as operating from another place of your home, another city and if you need to take it to a store to solve any problem of the pc.

But to this day still nobody from Apple has confirmed me that it can be virtualized correctly and that's why I asked my question to the NT Forum.
In the Forum I didn't get the necessary confirmation either.

Conclusion: the result after these months of 2021, is to buy a Mini-PC that is configured with a very powerful performance of RAM, CPU, graphics card etc. and to have my NT V8 to be able to do my trading.

This Mini-PC I bought it in my usual computer store that I have known for many years.

I'm sorry I can't clarify more this specific issue with M1 Apple but I can confirm what was my final decision after that moment.

Best regards.

[xabcdtrading]

If it helps any of you ... vmware fusion (https://blogs.vmware.com/teamfusion/...available.html) will support the m1 chip and if you need a complete walk through on setting up ninjatrader 8 on a mac, watch the video here: https://www.xabcdtrading.com/blog/ninjatrader-8-mac/ (took about 30 minutes to get it up and running)... and you'll see in the video how it runs within your mac OS as an application and doesn't feel like its running through a VM.

Also important to note that in our experience, parallels will suffer from crash after crash under any sort of load.

Here is what it will look like on your mac running vmware + NT8.

[Wessel]

Thanks XABCDTrading,
You're work inspired met to give UTM a go. That is a opensource version for M1 Silicon Mac;s of VMWare/Parrallels and it works even simpler as there is no need to convert the disk image anymore. I wrote some notes in this post below. It already supports GPU support in the beta version of UTM 3.0.x. and setting up was simle no registry stuff needed or any other workarounds, just out of the box install and go..

https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...99#post1186099

[SDF02]

Update from my side ... I've given up on trying to make it work on my Mac.

Instead, I am now buying a space on a Virtual Private Server and use Google RemoteDesktop to access it. Great improvement!!
This solution frees up CPU on my Mac, it's always on 24/7, and I can also access NT from mobile devices. Would never go back ...

[ggNTrade2022]

Hi
sdf02, what is your machine provider and do you have a network bandwidth limit ?

[SDF02]

ggNTrade2022 , I am using a VPS M account at https://contabo.com/en/ (The VPS S account should be sufficient for most applications, but my indicators seem a bit memory-intense.)
To access it from my Mac, I use the Splashtop Business App. After trying many alternatives, this works the smoothest for me. To access it from my iPhone, I use Google Remote Desktop.

[frasg]

I used the ninja with Mac m1 and parallels, very disappointing, to open my workspace 20 min, with a pc In theory less performing , 4 min... I chose to dedicate a windows pc to trading. I also tried some vps, but I always found latency in the mouse and always long times to load my workspace like the m1. With contabo have you noticed things of this kind?