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Mac user reflections with the end of Bootcamp and the new Apple ARM processors

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    Mac user reflections with the end of Bootcamp and the new Apple ARM processors

    Hello Mac fans,

    As I have used a mac for about a decade now with NT8 I felt that I would lend my opinion on the current status and what is to come. I have a MacBook pro 2019 with an i9 processor that has 8 cores SSD HD and 64GB of RAM. I run my own NT8 strategy which is very involved and demands high resources. Despite my higher end computer, I cannot use Parallels (PLS) to emulate and trade with NT8. It may be OK for someone else...but with my strategy it is not. Therefore I must bootcamp (BC) and use all my resources in the Windows 10 environment to get me the power and speed I need. I ran Geekbench in my bootcamp environment and got a score of around 6500 multicore. I ran the same Geekbench in the Parallels environment (splitting the RAM 32/32) and got as score of 2700. That is just not good enough to run my strategy. Even with the 6500 score, I do get a bit of lag at market open running 8 charts with 8 strategies. As an aside, every time I change from BC to PLS or vice versa, my machine ID changes and I have to reapply my license and connection settings to NT brokerage. So now I have two reasons to pick ONE windows solution and stay with that. So when I trade, I am in bootcamp and when I finish my trading session at 10:30 EST, I reboot in to mac OS and proceed with my trading log and the rest of my day.

    The future....

    I have seen many videos on YouTube that reflect that the new Apple ARM M1X processor (rumored to be released in June) SHOULD produce a Geekbench score of roughly 12000-14000 with no significant heat issues (which slows the speed) and excellent battery life. This would be amazing! The real question is, what will the score be while emulating windows 10 in Parallels. As well all know, with the new ARM processors, there is NO BOOTCAMP option. If it can hit a Geekbench of 10000 or higher while emulating Windows, that that would be the BEST scenario in that I could run both windows/ MacOS simultaneously AND get faster speed at market open where I am getting the lag now.

    If the M1X is NOT as fast as they say and I am determined to keep the responsiveness of NT8 brisk even at market open, I may have to purchase a dedicated windows computer with an AMD threadripper CPU (fastest currently). This one comes with 12-16 cores and is super fast. The only issue here is that CPU only comes in a desktop and I like to trade with a laptop. I can always, have the desktop sitting at my home office and remote in through my laptop if I am away from home trading though.

    Lastly, I can purchase a VPS in the cloud to trade with. The downside there is that I am renting a server and for the same price I could buy the desktop I noted above. The upside is that the servers are in Chicago and the latency time would be very low resulting in min slippage.

    So as a mac user who trades with NT, I wanted to lay out where I am now as well as my plans regarding the end of Bootcamp as I am sure there are many of us in the same boat.

    I would love to hear input from other NT8 traders on mac regarding your plans as well.

    Steven

    #2
    Hello, I am using a Mac Pro with Bootcamp to run NT8. I have high hopes for the M1X chips and am waiting to see what comes of vitualization of Windows ARM with Parralel, if it works well this is an option to consider. Otherwise go under a VPS.

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      #3
      Finally what I hope for the most is a Native Mac ARM version of NT8

      Comment


        #4
        sdp1969 , patrickseifert -- thanks for your thoughts. I wanted to show my support for this thread. While I understand the ideal of native Mac NinjaTrader is a reach, maybe the performance of Apple Silicon could be a factor to consider.

        I run NT8 on a MacBook Pro 2014 Intel i7 with VMware Fusion 11.5. (I have also run NT8 on an AWS g4dn.2xlarge with 3 screens over MS Remote Desktop 10.4 on the same Mac.) I have also been looking into options to upgrade my laptop, though for me it might be better to find a 2019 Intel i9 on eBay/Amazon/other if Apple won't sell them directly.

        Has anyone had experience with NT8 on the 2021 MacBook Pro with Parallels / VMware Fusion? I'm most concerned with whether NT8 runs on Windows 10/11 ARM flawlessly, or if it's glitchy. Hopefully the performance is fine, though I gather that Parallels 17 limits the cores & RAM that can be allocated to the guest Windows VM.

        Comment


          #5
          Hi guys,

          I have a 2021 14" MacBook Pro. 10 core M1 Max CPU, 32 graphics cores, 64 GB RAM. It's ridiculously fast in macOS and native benchmark scores outperform my dedicated desktop PC I use to trade. The only issue is translation. NinjaTrader 8 performance is atrocious. In timed tests, I've found everything loads approx. 3-5x slower than on my PC. I imagine this is due to so many layers of incompatibility and translation––NinjaTrader 8, not officially supported on Windows 11, translating 64-bit to ARM framework, then to Windows 11, then Windows 11 running as a virtual machine. Obviously, this would be an entirely different story if NinjaTrader 8 was a native Mac app with ARM framework support, but we all know that would never happen.

          I hope NinjaTrader offers support for ARM framework and Windows 11 ARM (the only currently supported Windows version for M1, as Windows 10 ARM was scrapped). That would reduce many translation layers.

          Comment


            #6
            Im using an Macbook Air M1 with Plesk Windows 11. I tried to use NT8 in this configuration, but it doesnt work in the right way. Its running, but there are some complications, for example while installing new indicators. Thats not possible form case to case, because file window isnt showing sometimes. Instead of this im using an VPS now. Works fine to trade from anywhere, but isnt the right setup for backtesting and optimization. So i will buy a Windows Desktop for using it with remote control. Back to M1: The hardest problem in my mind is, that you have to run not only NT8 correctly. You need a correct working TWS too. So you need double stability for your tradesystem, in my opinion thats not possible with M1 for now.

            Comment


              #7
              Today i tried to work with NT8 instead of NT8 64-bit - and that works fine. But makes no sense, because only 64-bit applications should be running on the M1

              Comment


                #8
                I used UTM its an open source version for running VM's instead of Parralles/VMWare and it works fine with Windows 11 ARM 64 & NT8-64 bits and GPU support. I'm using fullscreen full retina resolution so far it works fine.

                I posted my settings and explorations here:
                https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...99#post1186099
                Last edited by Wessel; 01-18-2022, 06:28 AM.

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