NT8 Charts Lags and Delays - Need a solution ASAP

[Market1337]

Hello,

Every time the market data becomes fast, the NinjaTrader chart falls behind considerably. I use the ChartLagTime tool to calculate the chart delay and sometimes it is several minutes!

NinjaTrader is unusable and no professional trader can rely on it anymore. This is absolutely unacceptable and needs to be fixed, you need to stop blaming the configuration of your clients' computers. Even with the most powerful computer on the planet and a fiber connection, this lag/performance problem occurs.

I have a gamer computer worth about 15k USD, no matter how many templates, how many screens, no matter how high the resolution or how many indicators, your platform LAGs terribly by default! Can't you try your own software when there is volatility in the market?

Please don't answer me on how to troubleshoot these performance problems, I know them all, there is nothing to do your platform doesn't handle well the speed of modern market. It's even worse as time goes by because price action moves and algos are getting faster and faster.

I can list a ton of help requests on your forum that point to this problem, each time you play innocent and mea culpa.

Example:
Customer: "Even this second when the RTH session has finished, the current ES bar being painted on my 1min chart is 7 minutes behind the real time."
NT Support: "Have you followed any of the previous advice in the thread (check the previous page) for addressing this delay?"

This has to stop, you know very well that either your code is bad and NinjaTrader is not suitable anymore in 2022 because the markets have evolved. Your customers have already wasted enough time (and money), now you need to give a definitive logical answer with a plan to fix this, if you have to throw your current code in the garbage, then do it.

A quick and logical solution was suggested by user EasyTrading, this is to have a setting to reduce the number of updates NinjaTrader will process per second. Please implement this setting as soon as possible until you find a solution to your performance problems or NT9.

We are all waiting for a solution:

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1186936-nt8-lag-lag-lag

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1071280-lagging-ninjatrader-chart-by-8-10-minutes-following-fmoc/page2

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1076753-any-plan-to-utilize-multiple-cpu-cores

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1099070-nt8-charts-not-updating

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1105699-charts-not-updating-with-live-data-or-not-showing-any-data-at-all

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1072413-chart-lag-again/page2

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1109406-delayed-feed-when-compared-to-another-platform-using-the-same-data-source

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1199613-nt8-loading-issues-it-s-not-using-available-resources-so-well

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1202536-lag-problem

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

Hello Market1337,

Can you please tell me if you experience the lag when you have charts opened without any indicators applied. You mention the lag happens by default. If the issue would be caused by the NinjaTrader platform itself, all users would experience the issue.

If no lag happens without any indicators, I suggest to add one or a few and check if the lags recurs.

The 'Calculate' setting for indicators and strategies is important. If set to 'On each tick' or 'On price change', the indicator/strategy will be calculated on each incoming tick or each price change. During high volatility this can be very CPU intensive especially if the indicator/strategy makes complicated calculations. If you set it to 'On bar close', the indicator/strategy will only be calculated at the end of each price bar.

You could also use the NinjaTrader Utilization Monitor to check what chart items are resource heavy. Then remove those items and check if the lag persists.

To see what (if any) NinjaScript items may be contributing to the symptoms, please open the NinjaScript Utilization Monitor:

• Control Center > New > NinjaScript Output
• Right-click within the NinjaScript output window > Select 'NinjaScript Utilization Monitor...
• This window will begin to populate with NinjaScript items in order of time spent processing
• Let this window populate for at least a few minutes then send me a screenshot of it's contents
  • To send a screenshot with Windows 7 or newer I would recommend using Window's Snipping Tool.
    • Click here for instructions
  • Alternatively to send a screenshot press Alt + PRINT SCREEN to take a screenshot of the selected window. Then go to Start--> Accessories--> Paint, and press CTRL + V to paste the image. Lastly, save as a jpeg file and send the file as an attachment.
    • Click here for detailed instruction

[Market1337]

Hello Jason,

As I mentioned earlier, you seem to be unaware that your platform is not viable with the speed of our market.

I've already spent hundreds of hours trying to optimize my environment, there is nothing I can do, NT8 is a turtle caught in the prehistoric time.

Sure it lags a little less if there are absolutely no indicators, but it still makes no sense. If your users can't use the indicators they need, it's not their fault, it's because your software just isn't up to the task.

Your software is so poorly optimized, it doesn't use the resources of my CPU/GPU/RAM, it only takes a few charts with indicators and it starts to lag and yet my CPU/RAM are almost not used.

I have to open 5 instances of NT8 in virtual machines to make sure I'm using all the resources of my PC!

It is absolutely clear that no one from the NT8 team has ever dealt with their own product. It is absolutely impossible to trade with large amounts of money on this platform in a serious way without risking to lose everything due to lag and performance issues.

You seem to be saying that you are taking suggestions from your users, are you kidding us or what?

Here is a suggestion, put the possibility to reduce the number of data per connection received by NT8 to reduce lag. This is of course a workaround until your code can handle more load.

Also, what are you waiting for to add crypto exchanges on your platform? Don't you see that third parties have been offering this on your platform with illegal plugins for years?

[adl_ng]

I'm also facing the same issue. It lags for at least 5 mins when US market opens. I only got 5 charts open. However, if I reduce to 4 charts. The lags disappeared. But is that means your product only support 4 charts?

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Market1337, adl_ng,

The issue comes down to how NinjaTrader works. Because NinjaTrader offers the flexibility of allowing developers to write their own addons in C# that run on NinjaTrader, this is processed on the computer is and limited by the amount of processing work and the local computer hardware.

Its not the number of charts typically, its the number of indicators running on those charts and bar type running on the chart. 10 cpu intensive indicators on a single chart would cause more of performance impact than dozens of charts with no indicators applied. Some indicators and bar types process each tick, instead of on bar close, which is more CPU intensive. Order Flow indicators, as example, are much more CPU intensive than an indicator like the SMA which is minimal in performance impact.

Below is a link to a forum post that goes into detail.
https://ninjatrader.com/support/foru...35#post1055235

Our product supports as many charts and CPU intensive indicators as your computer hardware is able to handle.

[RT001]

I would love faster charts too, something like TC2000 is obviously a lot faster.

However, there are variables that after more than a year using NT8, I realize affect a lot the speed of the charts:

- that's what I suspect is happening with Market 1337, if you don't use a paid data feed like Kinetick / IQ feed you might hit limits set by your provider. For example, IBKR limits the number of requests you can make, so your chart freezes when it hits the limit, making NT8 looks slow but in reality it's IBKR

- the number of charts and indicators: in NT8, we tend to have more charts opened than in a normal soft, that usually have 2 charts setups. I have about 20 charts in my NT8 workspace, and I am using a second hand computer with 16 gb RAM that cost me less than 1000$... Some indicators (like volume profile) are more cpu intensive so this affects also performance

- each chart window uses a thread of your cpu I think (it's written in the docs), so from what I understand 4 charts in a window will be slower than 4 different charts in 4 different windows, but probably 20 charts in different windows will eat all your cpu too.

NT8 charts are a little slower than other charting software I find too, but other factors play on that because we typically ask more of that software and your data feed quality. I have found my intiial experience with NT8 very frustrating, nobody would tell me that the IBKR feed sucked, but it was the cause of my biggest problems in the soft.

[Attila]

Lat 2 days the chart (MES 12-22) is minutes behind the quotes.. ruined a couple of trades. I have only one workspace with 3 tabs.. Next to no indicators. Has been fine all year.. No changes to anything hardware or software..

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello Attila,

If the computer is still running the same instructions the data has changed.

Try closing all workspaces first, then in a new blank workspace open a chart with no indicators.

Are you still seeing the behavior?

See this post about performance.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1055200-nt8-jump-in-memory-usage?p=1055235#post1055235

[kdegale]

I have seen a lot of people online complaining about lag in NT8. I've been getting it also. I have a gaming PC with a 3080, literally the fastest SSD for random 4k read/write times etc etc etc. I Wonder if it's my current data feed with Apex Pro firm or NT8? I really think it's a Ninjatrader problem. This week I downloaded another platform to see how it performed at market open. There were no issues & I also noticed that the other platform using the same tick chart, was consistently about 50 ticks ahead of NT on every bar.

[Lancer]

kdegale, read forward from this post here for NT Support's explanation of why charts lag before computer hardware resources are anywhere near 100% utilization.

NT support further adds: "NinjaTrader has multiple threads for different tasks. To keep things simple, there are UI threads, there are Instrument threads, and there are thread pools. You very rarely will see 100% utilization on the an individual thread when lagging symptoms arise. You could close all open workspaces and open a new blank workspace to perform the blank workspace test, This will allow you to see the platform operating at full speed, and then to identify which additions are making the most impact. This is best tested when you see the symptoms, i.e. when there is greater volatility, otherwise you may not be able to notice the impact that arises. If you are looking at Task Manager, look at all logical processes, and keep in mind that you will not see 100% utilization on a single thread."

[brucerobinson]

Kdegale:
”I Wonder if it's my current data feed with Apex Pro firm or NT8?”
I would suggest you can mark this as low priority suspect - presumably you’re using same data feed in your side-by-side comparison with competing platform not exhibiting lag so doesn’t point to it; try pinging to see what you get - <100ms ballpark should not give lag due to data delivery issues (to give you a ‘reference’, I have a very narrowband but low latency connection using CQG & it’s fine); use ChartLagTime add-on and sync your PC clock to make platform induced lag clearly visible (details on Forum).

Your findings are consistent with those you’ve encountered reported elsewhere and in your side-by-side comparison with another platform, so I would suggest you take that as a ‘given’ and don’t use time or resources on hardware, data feed considerations etc. They’ve all been ‘done to death’ by Users such as myself, #Lancer et al.

FWIW I’d start with the absolute minimum workspace you can live with for your trading needs and see if you can get lag-free. If not, you’ve nowhere to go with NT8 (but saved a lot of pain on fool’s errands). If you post info on what you’re trying to achieve from NT8, other Users here are your best source of honest feedback & guidance

KR

[kdegale]

Kdegale:
”I Wonder if it's my current data feed with Apex Pro firm or NT8?”
I would suggest you can mark this as low priority suspect - presumably you’re using same data feed in your side-by-side comparison with competing platform not exhibiting lag so doesn’t point to it; try pinging to see what you get - <100ms ballpark should not give lag due to data delivery issues (to give you a ‘reference’, I have a very narrowband but low latency connection using CQG & it’s fine); use ChartLagTime add-on and sync your PC clock to make platform induced lag clearly visible (details on Forum).

Your findings are consistent with those you’ve encountered reported elsewhere and in your side-by-side comparison with another platform, so I would suggest you take that as a ‘given’ and don’t use time or resources on hardware, data feed considerations etc. They’ve all been ‘done to death’ by Users such as myself, #Lancer et al.

FWIW I’d start with the absolute minimum workspace you can live with for your trading needs and see if you can get lag-free. If not, you’ve nowhere to go with NT8 (but saved a lot of pain on fool’s errands). If you post info on what you’re trying to achieve from NT8, other Users here are your best source of honest feedback & guidance

KR

Thanks, I already use Dimension 4 to time sync my PC and a chart lag indicator. During regular daily chart times the lag seems completely fine. It's never really off by much but what I'm trying to figure out is how can the exact same data feed (Tick Chart) give different tick counts. I've rea all about how NT prints Tick charts, Time Sync etc. I'm guessing it must be an NT problem that it's always somewhat behind. I've seen a lot of complaints about NT's lag, non responsiveness & it seems to have got us nowhere. Maybe in NT9 it will be fixed???? lol

*edit** I'm adding my computer specs (it was made for gaming) so we can rule that out

i7-8700K
Plextor M10P (fastest random 4k read/write SSD available)
Nvidia 3080
1GB Fiber Internet
16GB DDR4 B-Die (B-Die ram can be tuned for lowest latency)

I will also test the NT Utilization Monitor tomorrow during the open. I also need to try the Tick Refresh add on, off and on during news or the open to see if it really shouldn't be used according to NT.

Also, the only indicator that calculates on each tick was my tick counter.

I only load 3 days of data when trading.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello kdegale,

NinjaTrader will update with the market updates as they are received as long as the computer resources have not run out. If you are referring to NinjaScripts specifically, these update based on the Calculate setting, and when set to Calculate.OnEachTick, will update immediately when the tick is received, as long as the computer resources are not fully utilized.

See this thread about performance.

https://ninjatrader.com/support/forum/forum/ninjatrader-8/platform-technical-support-aa/1055200-nt8-jump-in-memory-usage?p=1055235#post1055235

[kdegale]

I'm back to give my feelings on NT8. In my 30 years of PC/Windows use. NT8 has to be worst software I have ever used. The problems are known, they are mentioned on this forum as well as elsewhere online.

1: Why would it be by design that my trend channels constantly move & need to be re adjusted on a Tick or Volume chart? It makes absolutely no sense
2: Constant lag with Rithmic. Today volatility picked up about 30 minutes ago 10-13-2022 @ 11:30. My ONE single chart with 1 instrument & 1 basic EMA froze. I tried reloading historical data, no bars on the chart. I tried logging out of NT8. That didn't work. I tried closing NT. That didn't work.
3. Global drawing objects only seems to remove some objects. Whatever it decides at the time. I've tried with "global drawing objects" on & off. Still the same problem.
I installed NT7 in the meantime. I was able to connect without issue, no problems at all.

Now as I write this, the market has calmed down & now my chart has magically re appeared. It is not "my computer" problem. It is absolutely NT8's problem. The last update 8.0.26 was even worse even though in the notes there was an update for the Rithmic API.

* My PC specs are posted above. I have tried time syncing with a server ever 5 seconds, 30 seconds, 1 minute to reduce lag. I have a light weight version of windows 11 installed. I have also tried NT8 on an OEM copy on Windows 11. Same issue.

[NinjaTrader_ChelseaB]

Hello kdegale,

The short answer is the platform is designed to be open for developers to create addons in C#, a widely used non-proprietary language, which supports an ecosystem, as well as to connect to multiple brokerages and data providers.

Due to this flexibility and open structure, all data and logic is processed on the local computer, instead of being pre-processed on servers.

This means that NinjaTrader is limited by the local computer hardware resources, and is subject to the amount of data that has to be processed, as well as the efficiency of the developers creating the addon code.
Some addons are more efficient than others. We do try our best to provide guidance to developers for increasing efficiency, to alleviate performance issues.
Some scripts have to process a lot of tick data, for example scripts that measure volume (like order flow scripts), and don't have any workaround to prevent the amount of processing that has to be done.

That said, the faster the single threaded performance of the CPU, the more impact this will have on the performance of any specific thread. A solid state and plenty of memory is also recommended.


If you are actually wanting to investigate what is causing your specific issues, the process would be to start with a blank workspace, blank 1 minute chart, and no indicators. Then build back until the behavior returns.