A note for the people who manage NinajTrader development

[Gains]

Do we really need more than 1.6 gigs of memory? Every time I see NT going above 1 gig (I have 4) it gets really slow and I restart. When I don't restart it crashes anyway. I can't imagine NT using 2 gig efficiently. My bet is there are memory leaks and that letting it go to 2gig would just make it more slow.

I think the reason you are crashing is because Ninja at that point is taking all of the available system resources. At that point Windows is trying to furiously swap RAM data to the hard drive swap file and this slows everything. When resources are maxed out like this the OS and other running programs become unstable or so slow that they might appear to be crashed when they are just frozen for a while.

32bit Windows has a theoretical ability to address 4GB but in practice it is usually less than about 3.5GB for hardware mapping reasons. Windows itself hogs a huge chunk of the RAM.

I too noticed in the past when I would open many charts Ninja would rapidly get to the 1GB consumption range and hit the wall.

Under a 64bit OS the memory addressing limitations are for practical purposes eliminated. I am planning to build an 8GB machine to give Ninja and the other programs plenty of breathing room. Unfortunately my understanding is that if Ninja is compiled only as a 32 bit release it might not benefit at all from running on x64 Windows. It could though depending on how x64 Windows creates a 32 bit virtual space for it to run in. Will NT be given an entire 4GB space of it's own? If so then things should improve.

So what I am saying is if NT is only compiled as 32 bit but gets it's own 4GB of space then things are better.
If it is compiled as 64 bit then it will be able to use as much RAM as you want to throw at it and things are even better.
If it is compiled as 32 bit and it does not get a wide open 4GB home of it's own then things might not change that much.

Any Windows/NET memory mapping experts out there?
Hey support, will there be a 64 bit version of NT or just a 32 bit version verified to run well under x64?

Thanks,
Gains

[NinjaTrader_Jason]

NinjaTrader 7 will be supported on 64 bit OS' as well.

[Gains]

Hello,

I recommend visiting this link for improved performance:
http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/H...anceTips1.html

Thanks for that reminder Ben.
After I finish back testing I always forget to go back and reduce the number of bars in the chart. Once again I was running with over a year of bars when just three months is plenty.

Does anyone have any comments on the other questions?

Thanks,
Gains

[NinjaTrader_Ben]

Hello,

I recommend visiting this link for improved performance:

http://www.ninjatrader-support.com/HelpGuideV6/PerformanceTips1.html

[cunparis]

Do we really need more than 1.6 gigs of memory? Every time I see NT going above 1 gig (I have 4) it gets really slow and I restart. When I don't restart it crashes anyway. I can't imagine NT using 2 gig efficiently. My bet is there are memory leaks and that letting it go to 2gig would just make it more slow.

[Gains]

The RAM footprint of NT7 will be smaller than those of NT6.5 (first beta inQ2 09). However, there still as a windows imposed limitation of ~1.6GB per process which you still could hit e.g. on excessive load of tick data. We will provide details as we roll Q1.

I had the same concern as Whitmark. Do you intend to release NT 7 only in a 32 bit version? Isn't it possible for you to simply compile both a 32 bit and a 64 bit release? Wouldn't 64 bit addressing eliminate the "Windows imposed limitation" for all practical purposes?
I for one am planning the switch to x64 when Win 7 arrives and I might even update my 32 bit Vista laptop to Vista 64 next month. I think a lot of users will make the move to x64 during the lifespan of Ninja 7.

Setting the 64/32 bit issue aside, as far as this limitation "per process" goes... is each chart run as a separate process?

Thanks! I can't wait for the beta either.
Gains

[whitmark]

Dierk,

For any 32-bit process windows only would use max up to ~1.6 GB RAM.

I was under the impression that NT7 would take advantage of a 64 bit OS as a 64-bit process or am I mistaken. Do 64-bit applications still have a ~1.6 GB limit?

Also, I understand that the inside bid/ask data in addition to the last will be available in the historical data cache. Interesting to learn you are targeting more efficient memory usage (suggesting more historical data lookback) given the amount of data per market is expanding significantly. Looking forward to learning more as you work with NT7.

Whitmark

[cunparis]

This IS a most irritating thing - searches often require a couple of goes to get the right words to connect with what you want.

I hit refresh as fast as I can while the 20 seconds counts down to 0. I'm not sure if it creates load on the servers but it's fun.

Seriously though, 20 seconds is a bit weird. Must be some default in the program for those who are running the forums on a pentium 2.

[Mindset]

Y

I will forward your request to disable the 20 seconds waiting time to perform a new search.

This IS a most irritating thing - searches often require a couple of goes to get the right words to connect with what you want.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

The RAM footprint of NT7 will be smaller than those of NT6.5 (first beta inQ2 09). However, there still as a windows imposed limitation of ~1.6GB per process which you still could hit e.g. on excessive load of tick data. We will provide details as we roll Q1.

[r2kTrader]

Update?

I found myself posting another messaging regarding this issue. When I ran into it again, I was surprised it still existed.

Hi r2kTrader,

As stated in the response I have sent you, we are aware of the limitations of our Support Forum and currently are looking into options on how they can be overcome.

We will let you know when this will be changed.

[NinjaTrader_Dierk]

Since I just came across your last post ... it's a common misperception that windows would use whatever physical RAM would be available. For any 32-bit process windows only would use max up to ~1.6 GB RAM.

However, NT7 will come with some improvements regarding memory consumption.

[cunparis]

Just wanted to add that the crashing happens when running the optimizer. Sometimes I see it using 1 gig of memory (I have 4 total). Sometimes exiting and restarting seems to help with the memory usage and speed. But every once in a while it'll hang on the "loading data" (could be IQFeed's fault but it sure would be nice if we could cancel it with NT instead of waiting) and if I try to stop or exit it'll crash. But at least the crashes are limited to during development.

[NinjaTrader_Ray]

Thanks forthe note, for sure if you can get a reproducible scenario to your crashes that can help us identify the problem. Thanks for your purchase! NT7 will improve areas in memory and utilization of multiple-cores.

[cunparis]

An update from the original poster

I was searching for a topic and this thread came up in the list, so I read it again. It's been a few months since I wrote it. While I still feel that what I wrote about in the original post is still valid, it's obvious that I was really frustrated when I wrote it!

Since then, I've been using Ninjatrader daily testing out various trading strategies. I've gotten to know it very well. My biggest problem now? Crashing & the lack of multi-core support. For some reason Ninjatrader crashes often. If I notice a pattern I'll post the trace.

The lack of multi-core support is killing me. I have a quad core and when I run the optimizer, it can take 10-20 minutes and I can barely (painfully) modify my strategy for the next run. I understand this is coming in NT7 so I'm not going to complain other than say I can't wait for NT7.

Finally, I purchased a license a few weeks ago. After evaluating a few other products I decided that even with its quirks I liked Ninjatrader the best. What I like the best is that it uses C# and I can use all the object oriented programming techniques that I love. I have coded up a multi-instrument multi-timeframe strategy with position sizing. I guess it ends up being a mini-trading system coded in a trading system. It has been a lot of fun, a lot more fun than my real job where we do Java development to measure TV audiences.

Anyway, I just wanted to update the thread to end it on a positive note. And to say thanks to all the Ninjatrader support staff whose very quick responses have allowed me to work very efficiently. Thanks! And I can't wait for the NT7 beta!