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NinjaTrader 8 - Syncing Account Positions

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    NinjaTrader 8 - Syncing Account Positions

    NinjaTrader 8 - Syncing Account Positions

    Adopt Account position
    This setting should be used if you would like your strategy to disregard the historical virtual Strategy Position and to start in the same position as the real-world Account Position.

    On startup the strategy will begin executing orders immediately.

    Any active orders on the account previously generated by the strategy that does not match* an active strategy order will be cancelled. Should the strategy be unable to cancel and receive confirmation on the cancellation of these orders within 40 seconds the strategy will not start and an alert will be issued.
    The matching active orders on the account will then be mapped to the active strategy orders
    Any remaining active strategy orders that cannot be successfully paired will be submitted live and the strategy will then try to sync your Account Position to your Strategy Position through the process below.
    • Only one strategy with this setting can be started at a time for an individual account and instrument.
    The account and instrument the strategy is started on must not have any working orders which were submitted outside of the strategy. If an order is detected, the strategy can not be started until these orders have been manually managed.

    What is required is an option to allow - Adoption of Any Current Orders and Position
    >>All working orders - do not cancel them - add them into the Realtime Orders Collection
    >> Position - adopt show the real world position
    1. not cancel anything..
    2. just start up.....
    3. allow any number of strategies on the same NT8 instance to start on the same instrument and account... :-)

    You solution above is only useful for restarting a strategy which can be reconciled...
    This is a very bad limitation for those of use who assist and consult for commercial funds for example - or for more swing trading types of traders....

    this is a very bad Achilles heal for the software - no where i can think of would one find this functionality being enforced - thus preventing certain trading approaches and SAFETY and complications... :-)

    If this function is not added - this means other bespoke technology would have to be used to substitute NT8 for trading.... in other words NT8 would have to be in sim mode and an External fix engine would be used for the actual message and execution to avoid cancellations of working orders - so avoid NT8 cancelling orders or not starting... due to events such as a server has been cleaned down and restarted - or another node used instead - or yes external orders have been added by a system or person...

    or even worse as purist we will have to resort to an indicator or addon based trade manager approach would be used to intercept stragegy order/signals and execute them and manage them as an indicator wont do unwanted actions such as cancelling vital working orders on an account...

    imagine the scenario whereby a group of traders submit and approve.reject orders and want a generic system to monitor and control orders and positions while giving them freedom to work from any client with nt8 or other nt7 etc...

    Please add this so we can make NT8 our flagship AT product or we will not be able to use it and will have to resort to Fix Engine solutions... that use a hybrid of NT8 in Sim for signals and external systems live - thus NT8 will then lose our on round turns etc or
    failing that please provide an example of using an Addon to do the job of a strategy managing trades etc - which is duplicating function.

    >>This is an extremely easy and simple change and will make NT8 extremely useful -even more. Its very alarming to see this is not being provided - instead some halfway house which i am not sure is good for anything other than a strategy restart - with persisted context...

    The professional trading scenario is
    1. Do not look for a persisted state- look for the real world state and adopt it - do not assume and try to change it....ever unless some business rules or validation process is in force...
    2. Allow multiple Strategies across 1 or more versions of NT8 other platforms to start up in this mode and access and control - we have expert systems which control which strategy might be used at any given moment controlled by an AI tree - and certainly built this in NT8 but cannot now use it due to these types of restriction - we need to start and stop any number of strategies and yes access/ communicate all about the same account and instrument....

    The caveat of this lack of feature is currently we are not able to use the tech for many clients due to this constraint - retail and commercial.

    i will also send this via email - please consider this so we can migrate our systems in use by funds to NT8 if not we cannot justify it as it doesn't fit the bill...

    You are advertising TRADE LIKE A PRO - ok so please allow us to do so with this wonderful platform to make sure it really is the leading platform of the FUTURES ;-)

    thank you

    [email protected]
    Last edited by MicroTrends; 08-07-2016, 05:48 AM.

    Hello MicroTrends, and thank you for your suggestion.

    I would like to clarify one corner case before I submit your feature request to the product management team for review. If multiple strategies are started at the same time, would it be acceptable for the most recently started strategy to assume control of all existing working orders for the same account and instrument?

    Thanks for helping improve NinjaTrader 8.
    Jessica P.NinjaTrader Customer Service



      "would it be acceptable for the most recently started strategy to assume control of all existing working orders for the same account and instrument?"

      Yes as long as it does not block the others or stop them.....
      all have real world view :-)

      ALSO::::: Do not kill the strategy if some thing flattens that account/instrument and kills all orders - e.g an order from chart trader

      For the 1 strategy or any number of strategies

      Start - do not check or try to reconcile any orders
      do not cancel any orders
      at all times view the underlying account position

      allow access to the orders of the underlying account/instrument
      "Realtime" Orders - is actually a reference to the
      Accont.Orders[Instrument] collection for example
      so that Orders is always in sync with the underlying....

      = local strategy Position instance is a reference to the underlying account.positions[instrument]

      so that it will update as the underlying position updates..
      ::>>>no need to sync no need to have a seperate instance synced

      This way 1 or many strategy objects connected to the account/instrument as the primary dataseries and account/instrument will always see the underlying real world view pulled in by the data/order connection.

      And they can be on the same machine/instance or on a different server /instance and all see the same thing via the connection to NT Continuum to the same trade account via one or many account connections...
      That is the single most useful feature i can think of. the power of what that gives me chomping at the bit :-)

      So allow this on 1 Strategy - and there is no more work to do.
      any subsequent strategies - might simply look at the state and then create orders on different accounts or hedge instruments and logic etc

      or for example - the first strategy might start - then that is the master
      others start on different time frames - and they have a certain logic for entry or trade management
      these are then made active at some point and communicate/

      so yes it is much easier for the NT developers to
      do not check anything
      allow direct strategy local instance mapping to the real underlying positions and orders - instead of carrying a snapshot held seperately - or allow update of the local instance snapshot from the real underlyuing - or allow references alonside

      Then you got something that restart and continue and will open up a new universe for what we can do with NT8
      and retail and commercials will benefit...

      1 easy to think of scenario is swing trading - stop and start for retail traders- who might not have saved state etc.
      for me i have 101 reasons- the most obvious is: multiple technique continuous position management - and even auto rollover for futures etc

      another benefit is - if you are doing maintenance and you stop and start
      or the connection goes - if the strategy is out of market hours it will try to cancel orders and machine gun the exchange and then we get irate notices from FCMs saying are we trying to get them in trouble with the exchange?

      imagine 20different positions and you restart and strategies are started and NT tries to cancel orders do things that's 100s of orders potentially all screwed up or rejected out of hours... so then we have to restart - without the same strategies and recreate it and it can cost 100K quite easily in errors of technology..if you lose your trade management of an asset. ive seen it first hand.

      So the new suggestion gets around all of this type of thing. In a pro mode - it is much better to provide full control of what to cancel and when. - providing we are able to program it and do it safely as i understand you are trying to prevent small account retail traders from harming themselves with strategies with the legacy rules - but they will benefit from the new options if it is programmed correctly...

      >>I feel this functionality is badly needed and will allow us to provide a 360 degree solution in one technology NT8...
      + I feel it will benefit many types of traders and systems -
      + perhaps the end use or developer would click an agreement to say they are using that mode...
      so for the first time they use it they aware etc.. that it is only for advance users/developers the must agree its not the risk of NT but of the developer and system they are agreeing to use...

      Time Saving also:
      Imagine the typical trading scenario we have where you have 12 servers in 4 timezones
      trading production/ pre production, backtests and visualization/r&D

      simply restart and continue... don't spend 12 hours per weekend in maintenance...
      the production and realtime sim trading - works all week - risk and performance is the key element to enforce.
      it has to be stopped and restarted - sometimes different parametersets/ssytems have to take over and are dormant on the same account/instrument
      and this new mode will allow this to occur seemlessly all within NT8

      So then you got all you need - as you are trading in the NT8 platform itself
      you got data, live trading/realtime prod production trials
      signal execution and trade management
      optimising+ testing
      + REPORTING!!!! all under one roof NT8!!!!!! :-)
      The ability to stop and start and control a position for not just 1 day or 1 week -the ability to control it over several weeks and even rollover and continue.... by the usage of strategies in an orchestration of dataseries and instruments

      thank you this is the single most incredible feature to provide us developers and algo traders and retail swing/ even day traders :-)

      sorry if thats not clear i can send a diagram perhaps


      If only one strategy can essentially run on one account and instrument in that mode - it is still a leap forwards...
      so then we would connect on multiple instances of NT8 looking at the same account and instrument
      better if it can be done on 1 system though.

      i can understand that working out the strategy performance would be fun - the question is if you have 5 strategies looking at one account/instrument - would they show the same P&L and trade history... i guess perhaps not but then again they could do - the ultimate stats are in the account/stats master table not snapshots in the strategy. so to me that is irrelevant - probably the 1st strategy to start and make a trade would in fact have the profit and loss - other strategies alongside might move orders and manage - without performance stats.. however i would ignore their local snapshot and peek at the underlying account data or reference a master strategy for the data... so they could be related strategies looking at one set of data created and updated by one strategy. or they have different stats... so their local instance might be a view of the account.instrument.masterStrategy.objects...
      Last edited by MicroTrends; 08-09-2016, 03:59 AM.


        Hello MicroTrends,

        I have submitted a feature request to the product management team for the following feature :

        This user would like to be able to have strategies adopt account positions on startup. They have suggested desired behavior in several corner cases this situation may cause, which are in the attached summary.

        I will follow up with more information as soon as it's available. If the feature requests already exists, a vote will be added to it.

        Please let us know if there are any other ways we can help.
        Jessica P.NinjaTrader Customer Service


          Hello MicroTrends,

          This feature is being reviewed by the product management team and a vote, along with your notes, has been added to the feature using the following unique tracking ID


          Please let us know if there is any other way we can help.
          Jessica P.NinjaTrader Customer Service


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