alert objects have gone missing

[brucerobinson]

wetransfer currently says 2 files to 1 person, 1.4GB of 1018.8MB transferred. 100%. Less than 1 min remaining. Each file is @ 500mb
FHS

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick,
I've sent you the backup files you requested.
Note:
Yesterday, Alerts worked all day.
Today I Exported to Backup and sent to you (named Backup 1 Restored)

I exited Ninja and restarted.

All Alerts broken.


Never have I seen the like.
Beggars belief.

Kind regards
Bruce

[brucerobinson]

Update - further unfathomable behaviour

I imported the last known good.
Alerts working.
I then imported into this each of the backup items separately from the backup of what was working yesterday and not today i.e. Configuration files, Ninjascript files, Template files Workspace files etc., individually, one at a time Exiting and restarting Ninja after each

Alerts still working after each 'import'.

However, I had made some changes yesterday (updated a chart template with a change to the Repeater indicator, nothing substantive), and these changes were not updated despite having Imported every Backup item i.e. they were changes to a Chart template and a Workspace, I imported Templates and Workspaces from the backup of yesterdays working Setup and these changes are not applied.

Other than that, the Alerts were present having imported each Backup component separately.

I then restored the backup of yesterday's Setup in its entirety, rather than 'importing' the separate components of it into the last known good Backup.

The minor changes to the chart setup and workspace are restored, and alerts are broken.

So, it seems that we can conclude that importing the Workspace, Template, Configuration files etc into an older Backup does not restore everything that restoring that backup in and of itself does.


Restoring the 'last known good' backup of 29th Jun repeatedly restores with Alerts functioning, but any closing or backing up of it seems to break the Alerts.

Importing Workspace and Templates files separately from a later backup does not seem to update them to their state in the later backup, whilst restoring the backup in its entirety does. The sum of the parts does not equal the whole. Unfortunately the later whole has broken Alerts.

A fiasco

I look forward to your reply.

Kind regards
Bruce

[brucerobinson]

After a bunch of wasted time Exiting, Backing Up, Restoring etc etc etc etc etc my guess is something along these lines:

Alert settings are only stored on a chart 'as is'. Most any change to the chart loses the Alert Settings e.g. make a change to anything on said chart and save the Chart template, bang Alerts gone


If correct, Alerts needs a HUGE health warning to Users letting them know the implications of this, and cautioning them as to whether they want to waste their time on something that only has the longevity of up until any change made to the chart.

I look forward to your reply

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

If you make a change to your chart which would cause the alert to be removed, there is typically a pop-up message informing you of this. Are you able to reproduce a scenario in which the alert's configuration is removed with no warning or message? If so, what are those steps?

[brucerobinson]

Hello Patrick,
The time at which to tell me to reduce my backup file size by deselecting Default Backup Settings would have been at the time of asking me to send them by WeTransfer.

The time at which to tell me you have a small email attachment restriction of 10mb would have been at the time of asking me to email my backup files to you. Other than a fresh installation, I doubt a Backup is ever less than 10mb.

I restored from what was a backup with Alerts working (29th Jun) and which had previously restored with alerts working.
Now, restoring from that same Backup, Alerts are not working.

Most recently, loading it caused Ninja into a Not Responding state.

"If you make a change to your chart which would cause the alert to be removed, there is typically a pop-up message informing you of this. Are you able to reproduce a scenario in which the alert's configuration is removed with no warning or message? If so, what are those steps?

I have given you several descriptions of when the Alerts have been removed. So has another User, describing the same symptoms. There are several 'scenarios' in which the Alerts are removed. Whether the scenario is 'causal' is a different matter. Exiting and launching Ninja, alerts removed 'sometimes'. Saving and Restoring from Backup, Alerts removed, 'sometimes', depends on the Backup used, 'sometimes.

Certainly I have seen the message you refer to (when creating a duplicate chart for a new instrument when setting up the alerts in the first place).
Certainly I have made changes to the chart(s). As described, I made a change to the Repeater indicator and saved the chart template using Save As and then saved the Workspace. BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THIS SHOULD BRING UP THE MESSAGE. It didn't. As it didn't, presumably it should not be an action that can remove the Alerts. I can tell you the alerts didn't work after Exit/Opening Ninja. But they have done that without making changes to the chart.


You have a problem with the working and saving of Alerts, identified by 2 separate Users.

What have you done to identify the problem? Have you tried to replicate the issue in any shape or form? Have you tried Exporting and importing backup and seeing if Alerts break? Have you tried making changes to the chart, saving as a new template and seeing if it breaks Alerts?


Have you 'done' anything, other than put it back on me to find and fix the myriad errors in your software?
Zero value-add assistance.
I'm not your beta tester.

It was just the same with the coding errors in the Trade Performance/Region Date format. Zero value-add. I undertook all the investigative diagnostics and created a scenario for you that replicated the behaviour.

If you wish to remote in to my machine to take the backup files you are welcome to.


Otherwise, like many others I am out of patience.

Hours, and hours, and hours.


My advice to anyone interested in using Alerts and reading this thread - stay well clear until Ninjatrader addresses the known issues that have been brought to their attention and fixes them. Unless you have tens of hours you don't know what to do with.

Kind regards
Bruce

[brucerobinson]

Patrick,
Please see attached folder of screenshots of Alert dialogue. The folders represent 3 workspaces each with 6 instruments with charts with Alerts attached.

As you can see some are broken, some are not.
They were all working at the start of the day.
FWIW, my suspicion would be that some action during the day breaks the Alert without bringing up the Warning Message.
However, it could be to do with saving, backing up, restoring, who knows.
The change I made to the chart Template was globally applied, so that would seem unlikely.

What is clear is it is flawed.
Asking me to 'replicate the scenario' and give you steps to reproduce is clearly very unlikely to happen. That would be easy, me doing all the work.

Someone responsible for the design and implementation of the Alerts needs to take the information I have provided, apply some gray-matter to it, and think about how this could be so with the benefit of their understanding of the design and internal workings of Alerts and how saved.

Kind regards
Bruce

[brucerobinson]

Patrick,
Some further information for you.
Attached are 2 screenshots.
The one named Edit - Broken shows the Indicator Plot field missing.
The one named Edit - Good is how it should be.

To remind you of information already provided -
I have Conditions set up 'If Data Series High Crosses Above from below offset 5 ticks the OHL Indicator High, Play Soundfile'


In every Condition that is broken, the Indicator Plot field is missing.


So, for the Condition attached to crossing below the Low, the Indicator Plot field is missing in the OHL Indicator the Condition is attached to. The other Indicators are not affected. So the PriorOHLC in the Indicator folder, for example, is not affected and displays its Indicator Plot field. If, in that same Alert, I switch to the Cross Above PriorOHLC High Condition, the Indicator Plot field is missing in the PriorOHLC Indicator the Condition is attached to. If I stay in the same Alert and Condition but look at an indicator the Condition is not attached to, say for example Current OHL indicator, the Indicator Plot field is present/visible in that indicator.

The same in every single one - the broken Alert, Condition, does not show the Indicator Plot field. All the other Indicators in the list appear as expected.

If I go to a different broken Alert and do the same, I see the same thing. The Indicator Plot field of the Indicator a Condition is attached to, and only the Indicator the Condition is attached to, has the Indicator Plot field missing.

Someone needs to figure out why.
Kind regards

[brucerobinson]

Patrick,
After providing you with the information re: Indicator Plot field missing, I 're-instated' the Alerts affected in this way.

I did so by switching the Alert Condition to one of the other unaffected Indicators i.e. if the Alert was set to trigger on the OHL Indicator, I switched to the PriorOHLC indicator and 'OK'd. Having done so, I could then switch back to the OHL Indicator and the missing Indicator Plot field was re-instated and could thus be selected once more and became working.

I did this for all so affected Alerts. As provided to you before - some, but not all, Alerts were affected and needed to be re-instated in this way.

To re-iterate once more, the Alerts are on a multitude of instruments, they are in different Workspaces, on different charts.


At the end of the exercise all Alerts were reinstated and appeared to be working ( cannot say each and every one was, as triggering depended on the Condition being met. However coincidentally it was around the time of the start of activity on instruments such as Currencies such as Aussie Dollar, Yen etc putting new highs and lows).


I am confident that the corrective action 'fixed' the broken Alerts.


Today I opened my platform and loaded my workspaces, and checked the Alerts. All Alerts were 'still good' i.e. Objects columns populated etc, and the Alerts were functioning.


Then, at some point, ALL ALERTS ARE BROKEN AGAIN. EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM. SOME 200.


I made no Backup, Restore, Exit etc. I made no changes to charts, templates, etc etc. All I did was open what I had saved yesterday with all Alerts reinstated and functioning.

When I opened, I checked every chart that has Alerts attached and they were in-tact.

The Alerts were functioning i.e. triggering soundfiles. After a while I realised I wasn't hearing any alerts any more and checked the charts with alerts on them. EVERY SINGLE ONE 'BROKEN', SAME ISSUE.

Now, if as I have already requested, someone would like to apply some logical diagnostic trouble-shooting to the matter, and who understands the architecture of the Alerts implementation, they will realise that, in addition to the fact that I did not make any changes to charts etc and did not apply any change to all charts that have Alerts attached them they will understand that I CANNOT have done anything 'global' that would affect every single chart that has Alerts attached to them (18, in 3 different Workspaces).


Just diabolical,

Kind regards
Bruce

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

Bruce,

The Development Team has eyes on what you've reported (internal ticket QA-3934) and they'd like some more information from your end. Could you follow up with me via email and include the custom OHL indicators you're using? Also, is this also occurring with build in indicators? If so, which one(s)? Answer these questions in your email to me (Ticket #1940742)

[brucerobinson]

Patrick,
You ask below: "include the custom OHL indicators you're using?"
See my Post #4...
"I do not have any third-party indicators
I am on latest NT8 build"


You ask below: "is this also occurring with build in indicators? If so, which one(s)?"
Two Ninja Indicators have Alert conditions attached to them: Current day OHL and Prior day OHLC. 3 of each per chart

The only other Indicators in use are:
SMA (as Price Line)
VOL
Repeater v2.1

(FYI Current day OHL & Prior Day OHLC are also on DOMs. However they were only added to the DOMs recently, and the problems with the Alerts were first reported prior to them being added to the DOMs)


Kind regards
Bruce

[kcwasher]

I experience this as well. An easy sort-of-solution would be to make them easily saveable. An alternative is to learn code, not a quick fix, but....