Some questions on Threading/CPU/GPU usage with NT8

[aviat72]

From what I have understood all charts (and I presume indicators/strategies) for a single instrument run on the same thread. Multiple instruments will run on multiple threads.

1. Suppose I have a few charts for ES and a few charts for CL as the primary data series. I presume all charts with ES will be one thread and all charts with CL will be on another. Do confirm.

2. Is it possible to create a "virtual instrument" eg: "Virtual ES 2020-06" which maps to the same symbol in the data feed but uses a different thread than those using "ES 2020-06"? Goal here is to separate out the charting and the trading execution into two different threads. So I might have my tick charts running on the Virtual instrument, and the actual discretionary trading or an automated strategy running on the real instrument?

3. Suppose I add ES as a secondary data series in the chart where CL is the primary data series. Will that make both the CL or ES charts run on the same thread? Or is it determined by the primary data series, and any secondary series is not important?

4. Does the MarketWatch window also count as a chart? i.e. if I have CL and ES in the market watch window, will that lead to ES & CL running on the same thread?

5. Could you also add some more insights into how NT8 can use the GPU for charting and what capabilities are needed to drive a 4K monitor with a 10 charts? Buying a powerful GPU card adds to the thermal load of the system, and I do not want to over-provision here.

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

1. Correct
2. The underlying symbol mapping would be the same so I believe the method you're proposing would not create a separate thread
3. No - The CL and ES will be on their own threads since they are separate instruments
4. Any window pulling in real-time or historical data would be a part of this threading logic
5. NinjaTrader certainly utilizes the GPU for chart rendering. We do not have any recommendations outside of what is available in the installation guide

[aviat72]

Thanks NinjaTrader_PatrickG

So what this looks like is that all work related to a particular instrument (charts, strategies, indicators, marketWatch) will work on just one thread. It does not matter if they are on a different charts or the same chart.

I would like to get some more insights into GPU. I do not want to buy a top of the line GPU (gaming) unless it will help since they have a high thermal load also.

Suppose I am driving 1 or 2 4K monitors.

Would it help to move away from the Intel Embedded Graphics to a discrete GPU. And if a discrete GPU what would be a good choice?

[NinjaTrader_PatrickG]

A discrete GPU will typically be orders of magnitude more powerful than the embedded motherboard graphics. 4K resolution means more pixels and more pixels require more processing power. We do not have any recommendations on hardware, however, I encourage other forum users to chime in with their setups specifically regarding 4K resolution and GPU.

[brucerobinson]

#aviat72 - re: Patrick's request for user input on hardware for 4k monitor setups, some info/experience fwiw...
I've incrementally gone from multiple HDs, QHD, and added 4ks incrementally up to now 6x, and internal motherboard graphics to simple card to gaming to two multi-monitor ones.
So been through each 'stage'.

My following comments are largely qualitative opinion based on that experience and what I can recall of the upgrade path, hope it helps.....
I haven't tried 4k without a card, but would caution against - leave CPU for Ninja processing
Along the road I used an NVIDIA gaming card with 2x 4ks. Had 2Gb memory iirc. Worked fine.
Now I use NVIDIA business/workstation cards - 1x4x4k + 1x2x4K (+1x QHD). Quadro series. AMD have an equivalent.
To my understanding a core(!) difference between these business (applications cad, 3d modelling etc) and gaming cards is 3d rendering, rich texture etc at high fps (e.g. 120). Which you don't need for trading (2d).
A big difference and a point you raise is the workstation cards run cool and quiet whereas even the quietest gaming cards are noisy and hot (I had a GeForce 1020 iirc which was 'quiet' relatively for a gaming card but still made a racket compared to my otherwise tranquil setup.
IIRC each 43" 4k screen full of chart rendering uses approx. a gigabyte of card memory.

On a related topic if you're going to 4k multi it implies lots of Windows. Many such Users have griped that NT8 doesn't support Windows Tiling, having to resort to 3rd-party apps. Windows recently put out a power tool for this but I see reported that NT8 chart Windows don't work in that either. Quadro come with a business app called Desktop Manager in which I can confirm NT8 charts work with some minor limitations and a bit of a learning curve (and makes creating your workspace from scratch easier as you can 'send' copy one chart to another Tile in your desktop Grid).

Having said all that - along the way I also took a look at what specialist Trading PC suppliers build, and they do both - i.e. some the Workstation type, some use gaming cards.

Hope it helps

[aviat72]

Thanks brucerobinson I used the Windows System tool, and the Intel GPU is barely exercised by a single 4K monitor I am currently using.
I am thinking of getting a Quadro too but wonder if I should get a gaming card which can also be used as a Machine learning workhorse.
Comparable Gaming cards (pricing) are 2-5x more powerful than the Quadro series.

[brucerobinson]

whatever you decide is best for what you want to do.
I'm no expert on the matter, and those that you would expect to be (who's business is to design/build Trading PCs) adopt both approaches, so doesn't help much - except that either is assured of success.
I can confirm success with both type on my path (which is what Ninja asked for input, as they don't yet use/hence experience).
My switch to Quadro was instigated by a desire to switch to multiple 4k monitors, which is more difficult whilst not impossible with gaming cards, so horses for courses.
My (limited) understanding is that you won't much benefit from the extra 'power'/$ of gaming cards because it doesn't benefit 2D chart rendering, which in the context of 4K is pixel rendering x fps - the card can either do it and hold it in memory, or it can't. My limited understanding is that there is a connection with activity on the chart in that only has to draw what has changed (techies probably laughing their heads off at this point ;-)
Simple Q though, is can whichever card drive the pixels as fast as they need to be driven?
In my case, the cards can drive 6x 4k monitors at 30FPS (no point in faster, charts don't refresh that fast) no matter how much activity, bars etc are on the charts/doms etc. And the answer is yes. More power per monitor won't achieve anything. But if you can get that power cheaper, makes sense if you don't mind the noise of a jet taking off emanating from your machine under load.

Machine learning - different matter, power will make a difference. Knock yourself out & good luck - whichever you go it will work, including using Ninja, few and minor issues in 4k.

Regards,